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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,
I’ve been researching the awd transit for sometime now. I have been trying to find info on how capable it would be for driving is soft beach sand (I know the manual states not to drive long distances in sand). I was hoping to determine whether or not I needed to go with a quigley conversion. I plan to build out a 148 long into a family camper for driving out on Long Island beaches. Anyway, I wanted to share something I found and want to know if anyone had info on it. It seems that the new transit trail sold overseas has an additional mode on the awd called lock. It locks 50:50 torque to front and rear. Doesn’t this essentially turn the vehicle into a true 4x4? Does quigley/quadvan have some arrangement with ford to keep this out of the us? Please let me know what you think. Here is a link to the info on the transit trail. Awd info is about 1/4 down the page.

 

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I do not know about Quigley but why on earth would Quadvan worry about this coming here? I wanted true 4wd and would have had it converted if my van was new. i have 55k on it and had it converted. Their wait time is approx 4 months for conversion So no issues with the $. They also do the lift, shock mounts, skid plates and more.
sometimes people get caught up in the fancy i want to have. With all of that comes the possible headaches down the road. I am a firm believer in keep it simple.
 

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No one really knows for sure what mud/ruts does. The owners manual in the USA doesn’t really say.

I’m sure it is possible to lock 50:50, and if mud/ruts doesn’t do it, an after market solution might happen, but who knows. Might never happen

If more difficult off roading is your priority, go with the 4wd conversion.
 

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Hello everyone,
I’ve been researching the awd transit for sometime now. I have been trying to find info on how capable it would be for driving is soft beach sand (I know the manual states not to drive long distances in sand). I was hoping to determine whether or not I needed to go with a quigley conversion. I plan to build out a 148 long into a family camper for driving out on Long Island beaches. Anyway, I wanted to share something I found and want to know if anyone had info on it. It seems that the new transit trail sold overseas has an additional mode on the awd called lock. It locks 50:50 torque to front and rear. Doesn’t this essentially turn the vehicle into a true 4x4? Does quigley/quadvan have some arrangement with ford to keep this out of the us? Please let me know what you think. Here is a link to the info on the transit trail. Awd info is about 1/4 down the page.

Its actually a good question. First, some context.

The original and defining functional difference between "4x4" and "AWD" as pioneered by Audi and then Subaru, Mitsubishi and others specifically for rallying, is that AWD systems had a center differential not a simple TC. This allowed the front and rear axles to operate at different speeds and thus work on paved roads while driving all 4 wheels. You can't do this with a conventional 4x4 which it doesn't have a center differential and pavement doesn't provide enough slip to prevent the transmission from binding. Just to add some confusion, some of the higher end 4x4 systems did have a center differentials which also incorporated torque biasing and locking options.

Unfortunately, the term AWD has become bastardized and now includes what are essentially partial AWD which use a clutch pack to simulate a center differential.

Ford's AWD system is the latter. It uses a fixed single speed transfer case, with a clutch pack on it that simulates a center differential and allows it to operate on paved roads. When it is locked, and provided the clutch pack is not overwhelmed, it behaves exactly the same a the fixed TC's that Quigley and QuadVan use.

However, Ford's AWD system doesn't have a low range so in that important respect, it cannot offer the same functionality as a Quigley or QuadVan, both of which essentially use F150 4x4 front axles and similar TCs.
 

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Here is the AWD page from the UK owners manual
Looks like marketing speak for mud and ruts mode.
@simple beat me to it by a couple of minutes but here is the documentation.
View attachment 147077
When I read that it sounds to me that lock mode is another stage beyond mud and snow that literally locks it and would not have the problems of overheating!
 

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Audi's quattro set the table and bar for AWD. I still have a 5k and 90 that are insane in the snow, way better than a later A8 etc. Ground clearance is the real limitation for them, they have rear and center diff lock on the dash. With all wheels driven nearly equally at all times, hydroplaning is way reduced. When hitting a puddle the wheel speed does not slow as.much as an undriven wheel. I don't think the modern computers can really cover that use case, just alway a few milli s behind.
 

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Audi's quattro set the table and bar for AWD. I still have a 5k and 90 that are insane in the snow, way better than a later A8 etc. Ground clearance is the real limitation for them, they have rear and center diff lock on the dash. With all wheels driven nearly equally at all times, hydroplaning is way reduced. When hitting a puddle the wheel speed does not slow as.much as an undriven wheel. I don't think the modern computers can really cover that use case, just alway a few milli s behind.
Yes I was in the UK and racing in amateur rallying when Audi launched the Quattro. I watched it dominate the RAC rally, it was a game changer, IMHO inspired somewhat by Jensen's FF. It certainly started my own journey with true AWD systems. I have a highly modified '94 3000GT with a TorSen center diff, Quaife front and KAAZ rear. All 100% mechanical and utterly amazing in all conditions - but pretty costly. I have had huge fun taking it up to Tahoe on dedicated snow tires and watching the looks of incredulity at how it handles snow and ice.

I'd like to put a TorSen center diff in my Quigley but cant really justify the cost and effort.
 

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TY. I forgot to quote the reference you already had to Audi, just meant to expound on it.
What I meant by better than the A8, I have a newer one that has more of the computer control, but as a driver this is hard to predict reliably or reacts a bit too late I see both side of the computer equation - like airbus vs boeing, it just gets harder or impossible to have manual control (turn everything off) in modern cars. Every day driving being able to brake one wheel is incredible on torque vectoring, but when you want to slog it through stuff you want predictability The automagic stuff works for 95% of use, it is the 5% though small, can mean all the difference in jam, but does not make it to market because of cost. If they see the "synthetic" non real lockig stuff meets 95% of the market, there is little likelihood to add cost with a "real" system. There are only a fe time I had to lock the quattro diffs but they all saved a big helpness less headache (no wait for tow) and that is worth a lot. IMHO.
 

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No one really knows for sure what mud/ruts does. The owners manual in the USA doesn’t really say.

I’m sure it is possible to lock 50:50, and if mud/ruts doesn’t do it, an after market solution might happen, but who knows. Might never happen

If more difficult off roading is your priority, go with the 4wd conversion.
Just got back from 2 weeks of Quail hunting in the AZ mountains following 4WD trucks and had no issues using Mud/Ruts mode (6+" snow in some places), just need to drive cautiously. Cli8mbed just about everything out there within reason (stock AWD 2020 148 wheel base).
 

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Two things I noticed when I engaged Mud/Ruts in the snow last weekend - traction control turned off and I was able to rev up the engine more in low gears, which in turn allowed me to drift the rear of van in the parking lot and scare my wife. It was fun.

I suspect that van is more capable than most people gives it credit for right now. If you have the extra money and can wait, get a Quigley, but you would probably be fine on Long Beach with AWD.
 

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You could also focus on the things that you still may need with da Quig. Like a good air compressor, the auto psi adapters for between 10-16, traction ramps, hi jack, shovels an energy recovery strap, recovery locations (never a ball hitch!), extra fluids, etc. Never stop and stay in the sand, back up a bit from furthest track and all those tricks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you again for all of the info you have all provided. I still wish I could find a video of someone really pushing the limits of the awd. Specifically in sand. I guess no one wants to destroy their nice new transit lol.
 

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Thank you again for all of the info you have all provided. I still wish I could find a video of someone really pushing the limits of the awd. Specifically in sand. I guess no one wants to destroy their nice new transit lol.
Would have loved to have video of all the jeep roads we took in southern AZ mountains... but it is hard to do when driving haha. I believe adding true all terrain tires (such as KO2) would make a significant difference also as the stock tires really aren't much. A slight lift and suspension tune would help also, things to consider. If you are serious off-roader then hard to beat a 4x4 conversion, had it on an E350 and it was a go anywhere rig at that point but I just never ended needing to go to those kind of places or trails.
 

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Out of curiosity, how many of you would want an AWD lockout option? How many would of you would want a low range option for the AWD?
Starting a poll might be a better option than adding to this thread. Also what an AWD lockout would do, prevent TC from overheating and how it would make the tires hop on dry pavement like a true 4wd
 
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