[GROOVY2]

I am just throwing this out there as a Idea -

I have no clue if this would work or not -

Hopefully someone here knows more about APC and can
give some input on this idea--

End goal is to have Pure Sine Wave Inverter and AMG Battery
charger in One unit -sized correctly for van solar -

while researching for van electric parts I noticed that APC Backup
for office computer are very cheap - New -home/office -

found a used Very High Quality Enterprise APC for $30-craigslist

These APC provide Pure Sine Wave and many were +1800 watts/110 volt
and +2000 watts surge -most had 6 to 10 plugins -110v

High Quality - made to power electronics -
displays that are nice with specific battery details etc -

Also the APC has a Built in Battery Charger -

Charger is made to charge AMG batteries --Nice -

if the charger is powerful enough it could be sufficient
and Maybe be Perfect for solar on a van -

So maybe possible to get AMG battery charger and Pure sine wave inverter
in One unit ?????

Large Batteries mounted separately -

I have no clue if this is would work or not -

I have never touched a APC in person but I understand what they do-

Input into the APC is 110 volt AC -- Problem --

SO panel power needs to be converted to 110V AC at Some point -->
for APC operate - but possibly not - ?

Also noticed -

Some of the newer solar panels have a 110 volt Inverter built into
the back of the solar panel ---

So Panel power is 110v AC straight out of the panel and Smaller wire
is used -- Sweet --

Thoughts ?

 

[orton]

Couple of comments:

1. You can buy a pure sine inverter/charger/transfer switch in one unit. Magnum MSS1012. Not cheap.
2. Inverter not related to solar charger. The solar controller is a separate unit that should be a MPPT design when using high voltage soar panel(s).
3. What is the amp-hr rating of the APC. Suspect it is too low.
4. What is the charge amperage from the charger? Again suspect too low.
5. Inexpensive locally available solar panels can be bought for about $1/watt. Doubt that a panel with an inverter is price competitive. Buy local to eliminate shipping costs.

 

[GROOVY2]

Money is not the deciding factor for me really -
I like to hack stuff and make things -

Also for a Van solar setup the equipment available is limited -
Most of the inverters sized correctly are mostly Chinese Who Know what -
or Crazy expensive and you still have to mix and match components to make a system-

this idea came to me last night so
have just put a few hours of research into this --

APC -common to have 1800 watt 110v AC pure sine wave output-
12 and 24 volt AGM battery Charger in APC -

Enterprise grade APC are designed to run 5 desktop computer W monitors and modems / stuff --
pretty sure that could start up a fridge /computer lights no problem -

I know solar /systems well - and that is why I can see a good chance of this working -

the thing about the APC is that it is a complete System -

Pure Sine wave inverter / AGM battery charger / BMS / Display Panel -fans /many plugs -
nice clean small form factor -
Everything is there - 110 volt AC --Sweet --

Inside the case of a APC there is one or 2 AGM batteries -

Instead of using internal batteries run power leads to Big AMG house battery-


10s of millions of these have been made - that is why price point can be so low -

quick look at amazon brought up this -

 

[stanw909]

For $30 I say give it a try and report back.

 

[jethaden]

Everything Orton said, plus: The micro inverters mounted to the back of solar panels are specifically designed to sync with a electric grid sine wave source. You need a source, otherwise they do not work. I have no idea if the output of a sine wave inverter can be used as that source. I do not believe they are designed to accept power going into the output. You might just burn it up.

 

[mogulman]

You should be able to use the sine wave inverter. The batteries are typically small like 15Ah and are designed to operate for a short period of time (30 mins - 2 hrs). Also, there is a control board connected to inverter so you will need to figure out how to disable it. Maybe you can figure out how to mount the other solar control circuitry inside the box since you won't need the battery and charger.

 

[Budsky]

I'd have to wonder if most UPS electronics are not engineered for the cooling needed for long term use like in an RV- they may be counting on the fact the small internal battery will deplete before they overheat in typical standby usage.

Switch to a much larger battery and they may run long enough to have issues with heat.

There are invertors designed to handle it of course. I used to work with lead acid battery systems that weighed many tons, we also had invertors the size of household refrigerators or larger, powered by those battery systems.

 

[GROOVY2]

with further research I found someone on youtube that is doing basically
what I had described -
but for use on a large House i think ? -
knurlgnar24 -

UPS he is modifying to get the output to 1500 watts from
a UPS designed for 900 watts use - More powerful output /Longer -

The modder knurlgnar24 demonstrated using this to start / run Large appliances
heater and fridge- piston type dehumidifier-

way more startup power than what is normally used now in a van setup -

He added 8 more transistors -larger heat sink to transformer - fan and Larger wire -
so was Not a simple just plug it in - at high draw -- Bummer --

300 watts continuous 110v AC maybe ??-- Thoughts --

Still dont know if this will work for a van solar with the Limitation that
are necessary for Solar van living -- but maybe --

The modder does a good job showing and describing the mods he made
to his upgraded power mods to UPS inverter -

Mods needed are not simple- but doable by many --

Increasing wire size/ conductor to board - looked to be hardest mod -

knurlgnar24 has Many videos comparing inverters / Repairing inverters -

His videos are Very Good -explain things well and are close to the Best reviews done
on any type electronics I have seen on YT --

his videos revolve around electronics and Inverters in general --
Much Good Info -- He has MANY videos covering E topics -
Well worth watching on youtube -

knurlgnar24 --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HXvV30E7wQ
-
-
-

 

[lkruper]

Money is not the deciding factor for me really -
I like to hack stuff and make things -

Also for a Van solar setup the equipment available is limited -
Most of the inverters sized correctly are mostly Chinese Who Know what -
or Crazy expensive and you still have to mix and match components to make a system-

this idea came to me last night so
have just put a few hours of research into this --

APC -common to have 1800 watt 110v AC pure sine wave output-
12 and 24 volt AGM battery Charger in APC -

Enterprise grade APC are designed to run 5 desktop computer W monitors and modems / stuff --
pretty sure that could start up a fridge /computer lights no problem -

I know solar /systems well - and that is why I can see a good chance of this working -

the thing about the APC is that it is a complete System -

Pure Sine wave inverter / AGM battery charger / BMS / Display Panel -fans /many plugs -
nice clean small form factor -
Everything is there - 110 volt AC --Sweet --

Inside the case of a APC there is one or 2 AGM batteries -

Instead of using internal batteries run power leads to Big AMG house battery-


10s of millions of these have been made - that is why price point can be so low -

quick look at amazon brought up this -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBK3QK..._t=101&pf_rd_p=2212345782&pf_rd_i=12643218011

The UPS in that Amazon link does not have a pure sine wave output.


The price point for these consumer units, in my opinion, is low, because these units are not designed to last longer than one or two sets of batteries.


They are also not engineered to operate for many hours continuously or to rack up many hours of operation during their lifetime. They are designed to operate only when the power goes out, and not robust enough to run frequently. Most of the time they pass the AC input through to the output and are not converting DC to AC until the power goes out.


UPS batteries are not built to be cycled many times, and UPS systems are designed to charge those batteries and will not have the proper profile or power to charge larger a larger AGM battery bank of deep cycle batteries.

While it may appear that someone can Gerry-rig components like this, what cannot be verified is the long term effects on an expensive set of AGM batteries being maintained by equipment that is ill-suited to the task, unreliable and potentially dangerous.

 

[greg-92083]

I have a 360 watt APC UPS it powers my desk top computer - 40 watts, flat screen monitor - 40 watts, flat screen TV - 40 watts, desk light 26 watts. It came with a software program that wanted to always take over my machine for no real reason. So I deleted that and run it on 'automatic'.

The manual says it provides "A/C surge protection full time 375 joules. Phone/fax/DSL protection, EMI/RFI filter full time, A/C input resettable circuit breaker. Max 12 amps on four outlets."

$60 August 18, 2010 Sam's Club.

Greg Hayden
Vista, CA USA

 

[lkruper]

I have a 360 watt APC UPS it powers my desk top computer - 40 watts, flat screen monitor - 40 watts, flat screen TV - 40 watts, desk light 26 watts. It came with a software program that wanted to always take over my machine for no real reason. So I deleted that and run it on 'automatic'.

The manual says it provides "A/C surge protection full time 375 joules. Phone/fax/DSL protection, EMI/RFI filter full time, A/C input resettable circuit breaker. Max 12 amps on four outlets."

$60 August 18, 2010 Sam's Club.

Greg Hayden
Vista, CA USA

I have 5 APC UPS systems. I have one on my DSL modem which keeps my internet up when the power goes out and the most recent is the 1500 with the extra battery pack I got on lightning deal on Amazon. I have a TV, Satellite receiver and small desktop unit on it for a total of 90w. The unit will keep them on for 4 hours.


They are great for their intended purpose, but they are not designed for regular repetitive deep cycle operation. What they will give me is time to start up my generator if the outage will be prolonged.

 

[GROOVY2]

After further research the UPS will Not work -

too many compilations - unknowns -

O Well -