Consider the 10 seat option - you get the driver & passenger up front, 2 2-seat units, 1 1-seat unit and in the rear a 3-seat unit. I removed the 3-seat and one of the 2-seat units. This lets you have lots of options - and have a walk through all the way. Only the rear seat comes with release handles, however all of the seats can easily be removed - you just have to fashion something to catch the release catch - I used a nylon cable tie.
Anyone convert a Passenger Wagon?
Really been trying to stay away from the sprinter vans as it sounds like the transit is the way to go for simplicity, maintenance cost and availability of service, but sprinter also has the configuration I desire.
Being, I'm a family of four I really need a second row and would actually prefer to have the 3rd row as well, to seat up to 6-8 passengers if kids friends would like to come along for the adventure. Since the new transit isn't coming in a crew version it looks like I will probably have to take a passenger van and convert it. Wondering if anyone has had experience with building out a passenger van under the new platform, and especially pictures?
Being, I'm a family of four I really need a second row and would actually prefer to have the 3rd row as well, to seat up to 6-8 passengers if kids friends would like to come along for the adventure. Since the new transit isn't coming in a crew version it looks like I will probably have to take a passenger van and convert it. Wondering if anyone has had experience with building out a passenger van under the new platform, and especially pictures?
1 - 20 of 55 Posts
I converted an older (E-Series) window van and recommend you think through all the implications associated with starting out with a wagon. There are a lot of differences to consider.
I used a wagon to make it feel more open (visually) and it caused a lot of problems, plus it limits what you can build. I often regret not using a cargo van. And with newer Transit differences are even greater.
I'm not suggesting you don't use a wagon, just that you think about all the differences in advance. It's not just about extra seats.
I used a wagon to make it feel more open (visually) and it caused a lot of problems, plus it limits what you can build. I often regret not using a cargo van. And with newer Transit differences are even greater.
I'm not suggesting you don't use a wagon, just that you think about all the differences in advance. It's not just about extra seats.
When I had been flirting with the idea of getting an E-Series or Express for conversion, one thing I noticed was that it was easier to find a nice looking used passenger van, than to find a nice looking used cargo van, and, possibly less expensive. Of course, trades vans tend to get beat up. Passenger vans get sold off by corporate motor pools, gubmint agencies, churches, etc.I converted an older (E-Series) window van and recommend you think through all the implications associated with starting out with a wagon. There are a lot of differences to consider.
I used a wagon to make it feel more open (visually) and it caused a lot of problems, plus it limits what you can build. I often regret not using a cargo van. And with newer Transit differences are even greater.
I'm not suggesting you don't use a wagon, just that you think about all the differences in advance. It's not just about extra seats.
Back to Transit... the key differences would include LESS headroom, and LESS payload and towing capacity,
As it relates to building a camper-type conversion, I would personally worry more about other differences. All that glass on wagons is nice to look through, but it comes with a lot of disadvantages too....cut....
Back to Transit... the key differences would include LESS headroom, and LESS payload and towing capacity,
A lot depends on if you use the 130" or the 148" Wheelbase. On the 130", you get the 8 passenger seating standard and the 10 passenger optional. With the 148", you get the 12 passenger seating standard and 15 passenger optional.
Since you had already alluded to that, I was noting problem areas that are easily overlooked.As it relates to building a camper-type conversion, I would personally worry more about other differences. All that glass on wagons is nice to look through, but it comes with a lot of disadvantages too.
I am doing a pass van. Has good and bad points- the largest to overcome is planning a
Layout around the the good stuff the pass has installed as Oem.
Good: full interior plastics, flooring, headliners, underfloor heating, rear AC, and full length airbags, and the seat rails provide additional mounting options for cabinetry.
Bad: the airbags prevent full overhead cabinetry, had to devise system to mount stuff from ceilings w/o screwing up the h/l.
After a good weeks work, of fully insulating, installing roof fan, and such, I have come to realize the pass option will really work well for us, over what I would have with a cargo.
I removed all the H/l except for the front section, that I just removed the o/h bin side mount screws . That gives one enough room to install the acoustic and heat/cool insulation. After the insulation, I added many 1/4 20 threaded rivit nuts for ceiling/roof attachment points. Put it all back together and did similar on the side walls, but will not be reinstalling the black plastic lower side panels. This area will be open ,, behind the cabinets.
For the floor, I will put a 1/4 inch plywood covered with some sort of matching vinyl, over the Oem floor, with appropriate cutouts for the floor vent grills.
During the disassembled phase I pulled the Oem floor up enough to plan my few floor penetrations, and locate a path for a wire way and a 1/2 inch water "pipe".
I'm now in the bed and associated cabinet building phase. I build the frames with 1" square metal tube, all welded and fitted as I like them. I always try to plan for future flexibility and simplicity of set up.
After doing a Sprinter , and later remodeling the same, I have a good idea of what works for us.
I must give Orton some credit - as he has done a good deal oh the legwork on fittings and such, and the WWW, for ease of finding the stuff you need.
I will be adding additional batteries and also use propane for cooking. Not decided how exotic I'll do the elec. Stove will be a portable, that way I can use it in multiple locations, and use counterspace as needed.
One suggestion,, I was going to go with SO cord for elec branch circuit, but after pricing, I found econo extension cords 16 gauge for 1/3 cost, just cut the plug ends off and go...so what if it's orange. I'll do same wth 14 gage here needed.
And so much more.
Layout around the the good stuff the pass has installed as Oem.
Good: full interior plastics, flooring, headliners, underfloor heating, rear AC, and full length airbags, and the seat rails provide additional mounting options for cabinetry.
Bad: the airbags prevent full overhead cabinetry, had to devise system to mount stuff from ceilings w/o screwing up the h/l.
After a good weeks work, of fully insulating, installing roof fan, and such, I have come to realize the pass option will really work well for us, over what I would have with a cargo.
I removed all the H/l except for the front section, that I just removed the o/h bin side mount screws . That gives one enough room to install the acoustic and heat/cool insulation. After the insulation, I added many 1/4 20 threaded rivit nuts for ceiling/roof attachment points. Put it all back together and did similar on the side walls, but will not be reinstalling the black plastic lower side panels. This area will be open ,, behind the cabinets.
For the floor, I will put a 1/4 inch plywood covered with some sort of matching vinyl, over the Oem floor, with appropriate cutouts for the floor vent grills.
During the disassembled phase I pulled the Oem floor up enough to plan my few floor penetrations, and locate a path for a wire way and a 1/2 inch water "pipe".
I'm now in the bed and associated cabinet building phase. I build the frames with 1" square metal tube, all welded and fitted as I like them. I always try to plan for future flexibility and simplicity of set up.
After doing a Sprinter , and later remodeling the same, I have a good idea of what works for us.
I must give Orton some credit - as he has done a good deal oh the legwork on fittings and such, and the WWW, for ease of finding the stuff you need.
I will be adding additional batteries and also use propane for cooking. Not decided how exotic I'll do the elec. Stove will be a portable, that way I can use it in multiple locations, and use counterspace as needed.
One suggestion,, I was going to go with SO cord for elec branch circuit, but after pricing, I found econo extension cords 16 gauge for 1/3 cost, just cut the plug ends off and go...so what if it's orange. I'll do same wth 14 gage here needed.
And so much more.
My build is here - I was lucky to find a cargo with full windows.
http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/camper-vans-conversions/22513-meet-yellow-bird.html
As others have said there are advantages and disadvantages to both. For me the main benefits of the cargo were no airbags to deal with and no a/c unit in the back. I also get max space to use, no trim anywhere.
I do have to build up the whole thing though!
http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/camper-vans-conversions/22513-meet-yellow-bird.html
As others have said there are advantages and disadvantages to both. For me the main benefits of the cargo were no airbags to deal with and no a/c unit in the back. I also get max space to use, no trim anywhere.
I do have to build up the whole thing though!
Thanks for all the advice guys!
brimflop: Do you have any pictures you could post of your work? Regarding the side airbags are they along the entire side of the van?
I'm considering passenger van mainly for passenger safety.
I currently have a 2001 e250 EB cargo that I have converted, and added two seats but as my children grow and get heavier I'm concerned about the saftey in the seats I mounted.
brimflop: Do you have any pictures you could post of your work? Regarding the side airbags are they along the entire side of the van?
I'm considering passenger van mainly for passenger safety.
I currently have a 2001 e250 EB cargo that I have converted, and added two seats but as my children grow and get heavier I'm concerned about the saftey in the seats I mounted.
Some of the disadvantages that I've personally experienced with a window van (which apply to all models) that I won't repeat include:
Lack of ventilation. RV windows with screens would have been so nice on so many occasions. Granted today they make screen doors but it's not the same, or 100% of the solution. A couple of my windows open slightly but they are not enough. And we prefer not leaving front windows open -- not that they'd help much when camping in back of van. Besides, windows need screens that are easy to use.
Cooling and heating. Windows transfer so much heat that it's almost pointless to insulate the rest of the van. And when parked in the sun it can become a greenhouse in minutes. This adds a lot to cooling and heating loads.
Privacy. You can install curtains but when they are required 360 degrees around you it makes van feel odd. It doesn't feel like being inside a normal room. On the other hand sometimes having windows all around to view nature is great.
Affect on floorplan. It's easy enough to place a cabinet in front of a window (I've seen it on Westfalias, Sportsmobile, and others) but normal instinct is to leave windows exposed. And that has advantages and disadvantages. When you block access to windows it makes it hard to clean them or dry condensation if they sweat, etc...
We went with a window van to convert because we were downsizing from a larger Class C and thought a window van would feel larger. We also thought that it would make it easier to park at home since it doesn't look like a camper (HOA restriction). If we end up with another van it will start life as a cargo version and we'll take our chances with HOA.
Lack of ventilation. RV windows with screens would have been so nice on so many occasions. Granted today they make screen doors but it's not the same, or 100% of the solution. A couple of my windows open slightly but they are not enough. And we prefer not leaving front windows open -- not that they'd help much when camping in back of van. Besides, windows need screens that are easy to use.
Cooling and heating. Windows transfer so much heat that it's almost pointless to insulate the rest of the van. And when parked in the sun it can become a greenhouse in minutes. This adds a lot to cooling and heating loads.
Privacy. You can install curtains but when they are required 360 degrees around you it makes van feel odd. It doesn't feel like being inside a normal room. On the other hand sometimes having windows all around to view nature is great.
Affect on floorplan. It's easy enough to place a cabinet in front of a window (I've seen it on Westfalias, Sportsmobile, and others) but normal instinct is to leave windows exposed. And that has advantages and disadvantages. When you block access to windows it makes it hard to clean them or dry condensation if they sweat, etc...
We went with a window van to convert because we were downsizing from a larger Class C and thought a window van would feel larger. We also thought that it would make it easier to park at home since it doesn't look like a camper (HOA restriction). If we end up with another van it will start life as a cargo version and we'll take our chances with HOA.
A hole in the floor combined with an open roof vent will reduce the heat gain. I know immediately when entering the van if I forgot to open the floor hole and the roof vent. Works best when outside air temperature is cool.And when parked in the sun it can become a greenhouse in minutes.
I am about 80% complete on my 2015 12 passenger. Removed seats-sold most of them. Removed curtain airbags-this is a real pain, do not recommend it. Removed floor and vent system for rear A/C unit. A/C unit remains. Installed Coleman roof a/c, Norcold 6.3cf Refer LP12v,120v,, Suburban H20 Htr,LP,120v,, 30x48 HomeDepot Shower w/sliding glass windows/combo Thetford Aqua Magic Toilet, RoofTop Carefree Electric Awning, 120v Microwave $99 sits on top of refrigerator, 20 gal horizontal propane(under), 30gal fresh water(inside), 30gal black water(inside), 30gal black water (inside), 6 gal black water (under). Level II Tank Monitor. Three Lead Acid Sealed AGM 200 Amp 12v batteries, 4000w Aims Inverter, 400 watt Renogy Solar-40amp Charger. Sterling12v B2B Battery charger. Fan-Tastic Vent. My bad for not posting pictures as I progress, but promise to do detailed pictures etc once finished. I would rather go to have my molars pulled than try to transfer pictures to this computer. Why am I standing upside down or sideways in my pictures? I will learn how to post pictures when I'm done. Started project mid-October 2015. Working at least 4 hours a day, 6 days a week, having too much fun. My first retirement project. Expect to finish by end of April..
We asked ourselves just these questions as we commenced upgrading from a Honda Odyssey to a Ford Transit in order to get more living room on the road.
The thing that stopped us getting the wagon is the side air-bags. We are having a penthouse roof put on our RB, low-roof van in the summer, and that conversion cannot be done on the wagon because of those air-bags.
Luckily we found a cargo van configured just as we want. In particular, with respect to that "unfinished" look of the base cargo van, ours has the vinyl flooring and black panels on the walls, so it's a cleaner look. Our new van Fergus arrives at our house tomorrow, all being well.
We're delighted to have found this forum. In particular, we appreciate the information from those who, like ourselves, are converting the van for livability.
Regards,
EJB
The thing that stopped us getting the wagon is the side air-bags. We are having a penthouse roof put on our RB, low-roof van in the summer, and that conversion cannot be done on the wagon because of those air-bags.
Luckily we found a cargo van configured just as we want. In particular, with respect to that "unfinished" look of the base cargo van, ours has the vinyl flooring and black panels on the walls, so it's a cleaner look. Our new van Fergus arrives at our house tomorrow, all being well.
We're delighted to have found this forum. In particular, we appreciate the information from those who, like ourselves, are converting the van for livability.
Regards,
EJB
Yeah, cool days are always nice, and give us lots of options to stay comfortable. A 100 F sunny day not so much.A hole in the floor combined with an open roof vent will reduce the heat gain. I know immediately when entering the van if I forgot to open the floor hole and the roof vent. Works best when outside air temperature is cool.
Hopefully new van glass is much better than old vans', but either way it's going to take a lot of AC capacity to camp if parked in sun. For us the beach is one example without much shade.
Another detail I don't like about window vans is that windows are located to optimize visibility while seated. This is an issue even when adding windows to cargo vans. When standing inside many vans, windows are way too low to look out towards horizon. Fortunately most people don't stand much inside a camper except for cooking, but you do notice the difference when comparing vans and other RVs. And not all vans are equally as bad in this area.
One choice I made on the sold Sprinter conversion was to place the sink/counter on the right side at the slider opening so when slider door was open you could see out while working at the sink/counter. Did appreciate that choice so that is being copied on the Transit conversion. When using the portable two burner propane stove on the counter the steam/smells exit straight up out of the van with the door open.When standing inside many vans, windows are way too low to look out towards horizon. Fortunately most people don't stand much inside a camper except for cooking
As for as the pass van. I like the windows, always have, as we drive long distances, and the view is part of the experience, as far as the thermal loss/gain from windows, ok,. I still insulated the roof, both acoustically and thermally, as well as the side walls where I could. The air bags... a mixed blessing. safety factor, yes, but limits the design somewhat. You can remove them and maintain the system, you can purchase a module that takes care of this if you desire. However, the sidewall air curtains run from back to front, and I didn't want to remove that much protection. I wanted the rear air, thus another thing to design around relative to overhead storage, and the small fan on the floor area to work around. I removed all the seats in the rear, left the oem flooring etc. As far as layout for practical use. bed is cross-ways between the wheelhouse area, 6'1" is good enough for us, this is a bench type set up that is easy convertible from bench to bed. Usually, we used a split set up, with the cushions only removed from the front center half. Not sure if I will do a table set up, as we never used the one I put in the Sprinter set up. The "benches" are storage areas for water tank and such, with additional cabinets on left and right sides. Cooking area much like what Orton has laid out. Will most likely place the sink on the driver side, with the grey water tank just below the floor. Seems I'll have to custom fab up a tank to fit in the area, as the ac lines reduce the width to about 9 inches. So I will try my hand at plastic welding... Hot water, still not decided on..leaning towards the portable propane system out the rear, as I am not sold on the full battery and associated I would need to do a small elec set up. Showers are the main reason for the hot h2o, and I will have a set up out the rear doors for this, so. I am attempting to do a smart design without breaking the bank, and a robust elec grid can add a lot of cost. Reflection to how much use I got out of the one in the Sprinter leaves me wondering about cost vs use.
I agree that each person has to consider a lot of factors depending on what's important to them. And like they say, the Devil is in the details.>One choice I made on the sold Sprinter conversion was to place the sink/counter on the right side at the slider opening so when slider door was open you could see out while working at the sink/counter. Did appreciate that choice so that is being copied on the Transit conversion. When using the portable two burner propane stove on the counter the steam/smells exit straight up out of the van with the door open.
Regarding factory window elevations (or the available cutout area to install RV windows), one thing I noticed that must be significantly different between your Transit and previous Sprinter is that Transit windows appear much lower. I have not measured this, but since low-roof Sprinters have about 64-inches of headroom (as do ProMasters -- either being more than Transit), I expect that Transit windows could be as much as 10 inches lower.
My wife, who is about 4-inches shorter than I am, can stand in a Sprinter or ProMaster and look straight out. In a Transit it's not possible -- window elevations appear more like in older Ford and Chevy vans.
Which raises another question I hadn't consider before. On the new Transit, if you install a kitchen cabinet at standard counter elevation, will it be higher than the bottom of factory windows?
Chance:
I only have the window in the sliding door and the two rear door windows with the high roof.
The Transit sliding door is the same height on the Transit medium roof and the high roof so I think the opening is lower than the Sprinter high roof and thus not as easy to see out when standing. Just went out and confirmed that I can not see straight out through the Transit slider. Think I could in the Sprinter. I do have an insulated raised floor that is about 1 1/2" higher than stock. Sprinter had the same floor thickness.
Interesting that the rear doors are different. The opening is higher on the high rood compared to the medium roof.
I have also noticed that I occasionally bump my head getting in the slider door. I did not have that problem in the Sprinter. I am 5'-10" tall. Does not hurt because there is a rubber gasket at the top.
I only have the window in the sliding door and the two rear door windows with the high roof.
The Transit sliding door is the same height on the Transit medium roof and the high roof so I think the opening is lower than the Sprinter high roof and thus not as easy to see out when standing. Just went out and confirmed that I can not see straight out through the Transit slider. Think I could in the Sprinter. I do have an insulated raised floor that is about 1 1/2" higher than stock. Sprinter had the same floor thickness.
Interesting that the rear doors are different. The opening is higher on the high rood compared to the medium roof.
I have also noticed that I occasionally bump my head getting in the slider door. I did not have that problem in the Sprinter. I am 5'-10" tall. Does not hurt because there is a rubber gasket at the top.
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