[andyl]

They said they're working on another solution...

They could start a forum on discourse.org in about 10 minutes - server costs = $100 / month. I'd nominate you as moderator for an annual fee of $12,500.

 

[SION1771]

Adequate is a fair assessment.

My frustration was that, even though they had a list of issues they were aware of, they didn't bother to share them with me until I screwed something up following their directions. They're like 'oh, we knew about that, here's what you should've done'.

Ummmm... thanks for setting me up to make avoidable mistakes? They could've simply given a short list of tips and tricks to bring me from 80% satisfied to 100%. They're actually creating more work for themselves by making every inquiry one-off, wasting many hours of my time, and causing undue frustration and rework.

The kit is generally great. Too bad the engineering is diminished by the customer service. They got the hard part right and screwed up the easy part. LOL

My wife and I watched the videos. It occasionally was confusing but we thought they were adequate. 🤷‍♂️

 

[CincyBearcats]

They're like 'oh, we knew about that, here's what you should've done'.

This is extremely worrisome for a $10k+ expense that I've already committed to! Would you mind sharing?

 

[SION1771]

Search my posts here over the past month or two. I also commented on their YouTube videos for things I thought they should be telling people so read those.

At least nothing was a deal breaker - just more wasted time and frustration and rework than should've been... but the hours add up. My advice is don't try to do anything on a schedule - it all takes longer than you expect.

Also, they said they've fixed some things, like the passenger rear bump out that doesn't fit due to the power door wall wart. They said that's been corrected now.

 

[andyl]

My advice is don't try to do anything on a schedule - it all takes longer than you expect.

One critical piece of mis-information given by AdWag is that the install takes four days. Sure if the work is done by a pair of installers with all the tools and experience. But by a solo first-timer? Nope. For example: it took me a couple days of trial and error and research and tool-shopping to understand that you need cobalt drill bits to drill thru boron steel, accompanied by subtle techniques of drill speed, pressure and lubrication. Two days of wasted time could have been reduced to ten minutes if the install instructions were good.

 

[SION1771]

LOL - second that on the boron steel. HOURS to drill three holes, though that's partially because boron - found out on this forum that drilling there would take a long time. The AdWag video's drill method might work with a brand new bit, but you'd need a new bit for each hole. I found using a tiny bit to open the hole, then using larger and larger bits until you could finally fit their bit in. The large bit they include is an odd size (25/64"). The HD cobalt bit was 3/8", so after I killed the AdWag included bit on the first few holes, I only used it to finish the rest of the holes; I used the HD 3/8" or the Harbor Freight step bit for everything else. Go ahead and buy two or three HD cobalt bits up front.

AdWag would be nice if they spent $100 on tools and threw them in. Plastic pry tools, a little reacher/grabber, more bits, an extra hex T-wrench, etc. They could even sell an add-on kit if they didn't want to increase the price. You're gonna destroy most of the bits and the other stuff is useful after the build is done. The list of tools that they sent had a lot of stuff I would've barely used so I'm glad I didn't just buy those things. And they were missing other great/helpful tools. I went to HD a few times a week - sometimes twice a day - getting tools and stuff.

I bought the Astro Pneumatic Tool ADN1 and the Astro Pneumatic Tool ADR14 XL Blind Rivet Adapter Kit - I felt those were far better than the other options out there (unless you already have a fancy air tool setup). I had to buy a $100 Bosch drill to run them because none of my drills were powerful enough torques.

 

[andyl]

The AdWag video's drill method ...

The AdWag video never shows boron steel drilling. The holes just appear, as if by magic. The single 25/64 bit provided by AdWag is totally unfit for the task, despite video assurance to the contrary. Instructional malpractice.

After a lot of trial and error, the technique that worked for me: get a full set of cobalt steel bits, start with a small bit and expand the hole in 1/64 iterations, slow speed and use cutting fluid.

Also: get a magnet to pick up the piles of metal shavings that will fall into the voids in the van wall.

Amazon.com

 

[njvagabond]

I found using a tiny bit to open the hole, then using larger and larger bits until you could finally fit their bit in. The large bit they include is an odd size (25/64").

Sequencing through progressively larger bits when drilling in hard materials is pretty standard practice, as are low speeds and the use of cutting lubricants/coolant.

Not so sure about 25/64 as an "odd" size. That is the size called for from many suppliers of quality Rivnuts.
Say McMaster and Fastenal as two examples.

One critical piece of mis-information given by AdWag is that the install takes four days.

Not exactly what they say:

"Our system is designed to be installed in about 4 days using basic handtools without customizing or fabricating. Because skill level is difficult to quantify and varies widely from person to person, we can't guaranty a specific installation time. Our experience is that most people can install it in a few weekends with the help of a friend or two. A recent YouTube reviewer completed his install in 8 days with some help from his wife."

 

[SION1771]

Sequencing through progressively larger bits when drilling in hard materials is pretty standard practice, as are low speeds and the use of cutting lubricants/coolant.

Yep - but not according to the AdWag videos. Just use the one bit they give you for those three boron holes and all the other holes - no other bits needed!!

Go ahead and watch the next two minutes from the video (bookmarked to the 'pro-tip' section):

Not so sure about 25/64 as an "odd" size. That is the size called for from many suppliers of quality Rivnuts.
Say McMaster and Fastenal as two examples.

Odd, as in you're-not-going-to-find-it-at-your-local-hardware-store-so-make-sure-you-don't-use-it-unless-you-have-to. Sure, the two biggest specialty places in the country/world have those... but I'm guessing they have 64+ different sizes while the local hardware stores have just a handful. Add 'order and shipping time from McMaster' onto your build time. Though, ordering additional bits isn't even needed, as you saw in the video linked above.

You can give 'standard industry practice' and 'Say McMaster and Fastenal' tips on the topic, but that only supports what we're saying - the AdWag videos are mediocre yet that's all they give you to install a 600lbs. double pallet kit. All the tips you're giving would be great tips for them to furnish in their not-cheap kit. I paid a premium expecting more customer preparedness assistance. Caveat emptor, I guess.

 

[andyl]

<<< WELL ACTUALLY >>>

From the AdWag official installation guide:

Installation can be done over four days. It helps to have two people for A-frame bracing, track and panel installation.

• Day 1: Van preparation, Install fans, run electrical harness
• Day 2: A-Frame bracer installation
• Day 3: Hushmat, insulation, Reinstall front headliner, Finish electrical wiring under the seatbase to the battery.
• Day 4: Wall panel and track installation, reinstall B-Pillar covers and driver seat

The core engineering is good, but the install instructions are weak/misleading, and the support is unenthusiastic at best.

The weaknesses would be downright easy to fix, if AdWag so chose.

 

[SION1771]

I held a vacuum as I drilled - all the little stuff before you pierce through the metal has to come out towards the drill bit, then I'd guess about half the shavings after that fall out - probably more since there's a vacuum sucking them out.

And about 2/3ds of the drill holes could be accessed from the back, so I'd vacuum those right away too. And vacuum while reaming the holes smooth.

I'm elated that I didn't have to redo a single riv-nut!! Nothing to do with the vacuuming - just forgot to mention that earlier.

Also: get a magnet to pick up the piles of metal shavings that will fall into the voids in the van wall.

 

[andyl]

vacuum...

Yes I did vacuum as you describe, put down 'drop cloths' where possible, and still pulled out a bunch of metal shavings with the magnet. Give it a try!

 

[chesnok]

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on an adv wagon kit. Did you folks who have bought the kit include the electrical harness option? It seems like it may be more geared towards folks who aren't adding house power, but I'm new to this stuff and not quite sure.

 

[SLOFO]

The way I look at my AW build is that the mostly low power stuff- LED lights, Maxxfann and USB/12V plugs AW wires to the dual AGM van batteries. The rest- fridge, induction, propane heater, water pump goes to GZ 3000X. A Hybrid system I believe will work very well.

 

[SION1771]

Bought the harness. Looked at DIY or other options, the the AdWag one seemed like a good deal. It was really well made and sufficiently protected against potential sharp van edges. We got all 12volt outlets instead of USB; USB standards change over time while 12volt has been the same for many decades. It's easy to plug in a USB as needed but they all have idle volt draw where 12volt plugs don't.

We run our fridge off the 12volt via the AW harness - no issues. We plugged the whole thing into our GZ Yeti and plugged that into the van (though we set it up so you can plug the harness directly into the van if the Yeti isn't in there). If I'm recalling correctly (you can view the install videos to get specifics), the 12v outlets and harness legs are setup for 10 amps while the lights are 5amps. If you spread your load out (no two major things plugged in right next to each other), you should be able to plug almost everything in to the AW electric. Anything A/C 120v we do directly into the GZ.

 

[chesnok]

Thanks so much SLOFO and SION1771. I'll order the harness.

Another question: does anyone use the MOAB traverse bed? At first glance, it seems the obvious choice to save space. (I'm 5'10", have the long transit, don't anticipate any 6' ski bum sleeping companions.) But as I look more closely it looks like the rails prevent you from getting full extension east to west. And the regular MOAB can take a regular queen mattress. But then much less galley space. Thoughts?

 

[SLOFO]

If you get pocketed walls for the rear area it widens it up significantly.

 

[chesnok]

If you get pocketed walls for the rear area it widens it up significantly.

Yes, but the horizontal bed rail between the l-track is in the same position regardless. I've noticed in photos that adv wagon has a mattress cut special to go over that rail.
You can see it in the top bunk of this ig post:
http://instagr.am/p/CNIuwBGhUsa/

 

[kevvyd]

@johnmeyers
#BCBR Co-Ed 2008👊

 

[MattBinNE]

Yes, but the horizontal bed rail between the l-track is in the same position regardless.
http://instagr.am/p/CNIuwBGhUsa/

I ended up making my own bed frame that extended over the rails that attach to the l track. Not as easy to change heights and remove, but still doable and ran around $500.