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I am considering to use some EPDM ~ 1/8 inch thick as a thermal break.

It is a material known for its durability in outdoor uses.

McMaster sells it.
I use epdm outside the van for isolating noisey or vibrating components from the van, like the webasto fuel pump and exhaust line, but I gotta warn you the stuff I bought on Amazon had a fierce oil odor so I'd never use it inside the van. It's true I'm particularly sensitive to odors (asthmatic) so your mileage may vary.

Cheers.
 

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HomeDepot has cork options in 18" (3.2 mm) and 1/4" that are quite affordable. Cork is a bit under R4. It can be used between other materials to stop squeaks too.


 

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R4 per inch, I presume (?)...so around R1 for the 1/4" product you mentioned, or R0.5 for the 3.2mm.
Steel is R1, so less than that? Insulation properties are not straight line math. [Edit - As pointed out later, steel is not R1. I typed this without looking up the value when trying to make the point that the value was more than nothing.]
;)
Being thin is operative when covering the thermal bridges, unless a person is willing to lose a lot of interior room by installing a thick layer of foam on each wall PLUS the interior wall thickness on each side. This means the same reduction should be said about most of the commonly used insulation materials since Cork has about the same R value as XPS and EPS foams.

fwiw, I currently have an inch of poly-iso over a layer of .080 sound deadening matt in the roof of my van, between the still exposed steel roof beams. It snowed yesterday and to work on the van today I had a heater inside all day. The snow melted over the uninsulated cab, but is still continuous over the roof beams. Inside the van, the beams were definitely colder than the insulated surfaces but I was surprised by thinking the difference should be greater than it was. Also, the black foam blocks are currently removed from behind the front door window airbags and when holding a hand where the blocks had been felt like a waterfall of moving cold air.
 

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In the Sprinter build I bolted the 80/20 structures directly to the van steel. When the van steel was cold the interior 80/20 structure was also cold. Not having a thermal break neatly bypassed all the insulation I had installed. On Transit build I made sure I had a thermal break between the van steel and the 80/20 framework. In most places that was a piece of plywood between the van steel and the 80/20. Also added a nylon spacer between the bolt head and the extrusion to keep bolt from transferring the cold steel temperature to the extrusion.
 

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Steel is R1, so less than that? Insulation properties are not straight line math.
;)
I'm not quite following your logic then. I'm designing a house right now that'll be GreenStar Gold certified, and am using Tstuds (engineered studs w/polyiso foam, and an R19.3 value) for the walls. The goal? Thermal break.

R-values are typically listed as the value per inch, EPS being R3.85 and XPS being R5. I'm not sure how your "not straight line math" is deriving an R4 value out of 1/4" cork, especially if the R-value is similar to that of EPS or XPS foam. A quick web search pulls up cork being R3.6-4.2/inch.

I'm all ears, as I'd like to understand.

Craig
 

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I didn't say that cork would be R4 if it is 1/4", I was responding to your giving it an R value of 0.5, which means it would be more conductive than steel. You probably would have been pretty close though if you added the insulation value to the "1" baseline to come up with something slightly less than R=1.5. Easy math error, so no worries.
(y)
What I was more trying to get at is that we hit a practical limit quickly with the thin walls of our vans. The roof and wall beams are fairly thick steel and only a couple inches deep. Building studs are very thin steel with more depth. Fortunately it doesn't take much to create a thermal break by covering the steel with a thin layer and that is shown in the following two graphics. As you can see in the first one, the initial 1/8"-1/4" is really important.

This next graphic is heat modeling various ways to design a wall for a building, like you mentioned, and one aspect of this is how it shows that heat transfer is not smooth through the construction. It sounds like your house will be a hybrid, similar to #5. Our vans are more like #4 when we add almost any thermal spacer (yellow) over the steel beams, so the values in the above chart become the yellow layer in the graphic below for cases #3, #4, & #6. Again, we are working with thinner wall depth and thicker steel material in the vans, so there is less we can do about the beams and filling the space between the beams becomes more important. btw - This graphic nicely shows the value of Orton's approach of bolting the interior metal to his plywood (violet).



If I were going to live in Alaska or at a ski slope every weekend, I would be more willing to sacrifice usable width in the van, but how much becomes a personal choice and could become impractical quickly. If the wall panel is 1/2" tongue & groove wood and there is an inch of insulation over the steel beams, multiplied by the two walls, then there would be 3" lost from the width of the usable space. Using a half inch of insulation and quarter inch wall panels means losing 1.5".

For my use mostly as a pickup truck that I can comfortably sleep in into the low 40s/mid 30s, I'm in the middle of installing 1/4" insulation over the beams to get the thermal break and tougher 3/8" wall panels, so I'm giving up only 1.25" of the total interior width. Most of the insulation comes from insulating the big flat surfaces between the steel beams with the sound deadener, poly-iso, and reflectix (again similar to Orton) and the beams will have a thermal break like the yellow in #4 above.

Hope this helps.

Bob / CW
 

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Steel is R1, so less than that? Insulation properties are not straight line math.
;)
This is completely wrong. Carbon steel has a (lower bound) thermal conductivity of 36 [W/m*C]. If calculate an imperial R-val assuming a thickness of 1" with this thermal conductivity you get 0.004 [hr*ft^2*F/BTU].
 

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This is completely wrong. Carbon steel has a (lower bound) thermal conductivity of 36 [W/m*C]. If calculate an imperial R-val assuming a thickness of 1" with this thermal conductivity you get 0.004 [hr*ft^2*F/BTU].
My bad on the 1 baseline. Thanks for the correction.
 

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I am not sure what part you disagree with. Here is all the math and a pretty picture. The metal thermal bridge has a tiny cross sectional area, and therefore just can't move that much heat, even though it is made of a highly conductive material.
I appreciate you taking the time to show your work. Some observations:

1. Conductivity of carbon steel can be higher that what you assumed. As much as double. But for consistency I used your value.
2. Your pillar sidewall area is a little off from mine, but that probably comes down to the definition of 16 ga. This has a negligable effect.
3. For the "insulated case" the value of the two resistors in parallel are 3 C/W (pillar sides) and 93 C/W (insulation). So I think we can agree for the insulated case, heat transfer is dominated by pillar sides.

4. I disagree with your model of the un-insulated case. What you have modeled is a 5"x12" uninsulated patch of the outer wall. I say this because you assume a T-bulk equal to the interior of the van. In that case, the effective resistance is 2.5 C/W, which is lower than the pillar sides above, and thus does become dominant. In reality, T-bulk of the air inside the pillar will be substantially lower than the 65F inside the van. We can say this confidently because there is at least one boundary layer between T-bulk in the panel and the panel face. If I assume that the outer wall and the panel face are at your two bounding temperatures (65F and 25F), I can assume two symmetric boundary layers on the interior of the outer wall and panel face. This would place T-bulk in the panel halfway between them. That cuts your convective heat transfer in half (and doubles its effective resistance such that it is higher than the panel sides). Any additional insulation on the outside of the panel face (ie the thermal break) is going to reduce that delta between T-bulk and the outer wall, further reducing convective heat transfer.

For the un-insulated case, if the air volume inside the pillar is restricted from free flow into the van (which it should be as trapped void), the effective resistance from free convection occurring within the pillar is multiples higher than the resistance of the pillar sides. Thus the metal pillar sides will still dominate the heat transfer.

If you think I've made some errors in the above assumptions please point them out.
 
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