Ford Transit USA Forum banner

21 - 40 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,090 Posts
Note, the only risk to the engine is at load and low RPM, being at low load and low rpm is perfectly fine.
Exactly. Otherwise even idling at a traffic light would be a no-no >:D

"lugging" = low rpm under too much load, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
Having grown up with manual transmissions and conservatively estimating 1,000,000 plus miles operating such a system I am fairly confident that the 3.5L EcoBoost is not "lugging" at a constant 10mph in "D" mode. If it was "lugging" it would drive like it is lugging, but it isn't. It's just getting hot as blazes.

There have been a few comments about reduced internal cooling at low rpm, this combined with reduced radiator cooling at low speed seems to be pertinent to my original post inquiry.

The video about pre ignition seems noteworthy, but that kid isn't really discussing a normal driving context. He likely does not even know it because he finds the information interesting enough to make sweeping assumptions and imagined conditions to support the ideas. The claim that Toyota had to proactively introduce flammable contaminants to the piston chamber to create a pre ignition prone environment so they could reliably produce a pre ignition condition was entertaining. The ideas presented in the video seem relevant to Toyota Supra drivers who race the 24 hours at Sebring, or sneak onto the Martinsville Speedway oval for a 500 mile goose, brake, goose time trial.

An occasional hole shot or pocket pass on the race to the next red light while you are heading to your spin class isn't going to gouge your pistons.


I am loading ODBwiz on a tablet and will have it hooked up the next time I drive the Transit on an outing, and will observe how the system works with Tow/Haul, and Manual gear selection so that the engine runs near 1500 rpm.


Thank you.




.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Always remember 2 important points that make the Transit different...

Twin Turbos & Van engine compartment

2 heat making machines sit alongside our engines and even at low speed you are still generating plenty of exhaust gas temps (EGT) and that heat is less likely to leave the turbo housing as your exhaust gas flow rate is low. That gives more time for heat soak and more heat to swirl around the engine bay.

The vans have always had the most cramped engine compartments and at a low ground speed there isn't much force to the incoming air to force out the hot air in the engine compartment.
The really odd situation is when your water temp isn't high enough to turn on the radiator fans, and you don't have AC running therefore there is almost no movement to the very heat soaked air around the engine.

It would be interesting to run a low ground speed route, with a slight incline (load) and in just cool enough weather not to need AC and watch the EGT's and engine compartment temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Hi,
Thank you for the comments. They seem to summarize the situation.


I had to dig my ODBlink SX out of my toolbox, got ODBwiz installed and authorized on a tablet, and tested its functionality on the Transit while sitting in the driveway.
The next time I go for an outing I intend to attempt to collect a data log to review.


The only relevant PIDs I have found are engine coolant temp , RPM, and vehicle speed. I am looking for other temperature PIDs to log, but only found the two catalytic converter sensors in my list.



Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
The rocker switch has a mode to limit the gear from going too high. I set it to 4th gear or 3rd before any such climb.

It seems that Ford just care about mpg not about our
engine or transmission life span.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
I think it's rather telling that the curve is close to zero horsepower and torque at 2000 rpm. Lugging is very hard on an engine, I'd stay at 2500 so the engine has some responsiveness.

3.5 EB is nowhere near zero horsepower and torque at 2000 rpm. According to the BEMM at 2000 rpm: 150 HP, 380 ft lbs, which is more torque than the diesel or 3.7 at any speed.



Even at 1000 RPM it has 260 ft lbs which is the same as the peak torque of the 3.7 at 4,250 rpm.


The ecoboost is a torque monster at any speed which makes it tempting to operate it at very low rpm in an effort to get better fuel economy by the user and the manufacturer to meet government requirements.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I think it's rather telling that the curve is close to zero horsepower and torque at 2000 rpm. Lugging is very hard on an engine, I'd stay at 2500 so the engine has some responsiveness.

I believe that most dyno's don't begin to register anything below 2 or 3k, it my be different nowadays, but I know back when dinosuars roamed the earth it was the case.
Something to do with the "water brake" but I think they're all electric these days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
The rocker switch has a mode to limit the gear from going too high. I set it to 4th gear or 3rd before any such climb.

Hi,
Thank you for the insight.

I imagine this is in the owners manual, but can you elaborate?

I am inferring that there is a function to leave the system in automatic "D" drive but limit the top gear available.

How do you make use of this feature? Do you just tap the rocker switch while driving in "D"?

Also, have you found that this raises or adjusts the shift points throughout the range, as if they are spread out further, or does it just seem to effect the last gear in the range?

Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
I think you should investigate the burning smell. I have never had any issues like that. I pull an 8000 pound trailer up some serious grades and my ecoboost is happy as can be. I would try to keep your RPMS up to 1500 to 1800 if you are going to drive that slow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,118 Posts
Always remember 2 important points that make the Transit different...

Twin Turbos & Van engine compartment

2 heat making machines sit alongside our engines and even at low speed you are still generating plenty of exhaust gas temps (EGT) and that heat is less likely to leave the turbo housing as your exhaust gas flow rate is low. That gives more time for heat soak and more heat to swirl around the engine bay.

The vans have always had the most cramped engine compartments and at a low ground speed there isn't much force to the incoming air to force out the hot air in the engine compartment.
The really odd situation is when your water temp isn't high enough to turn on the radiator fans, and you don't have AC running therefore there is almost no movement to the very heat soaked air around the engine.

It would be interesting to run a low ground speed route, with a slight incline (load) and in just cool enough weather not to need AC and watch the EGT's and engine compartment temps.
I agree that air circulation under the hood (engine compartment) has always been an issue with many vans. This subject was discussed by one of the Ford engineers when listing the advantages of the new 7.3L V8 versus the V10. He said the V8 being narrower would improve air movement around the engine.

It’s also interesting to note that when Ford installed the 6.2L V8 in the E-Series a couple of years ago, it derated power a significant amount. I think engine compartment heat contributed to the derating.

Climbing steep grade out of Death Valley at very slow speeds I had a V10 E-450 motorhome smell hot and smoke some even though temperature was ok. It’s a similar problem when making ~300 HP at about 20 MPH on a warm day. The doghouse got pretty warm to the touch but coolant temperature was fine.

In case of Transit, I’m fairly certain the engine would be better off without the turbos climbing or crawling at 10 MPH. A small van can’t possibly need that much power to hold 10 MPH, plus torque difference at 1,000 RPM is minimal, if any. Turbos have their place, but it’s not at 10 MPH at steady 1,000 RPM. They do add a lot of hot surface area in a small space though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
I drove the van last night and learned to use the rocker switch in "D" drive mode, but I am not sure what the goal is.


We were on a mid speed sunset cruise, so I did not encounter enough circumstances to figure out if this function changed the shift points or if it just deactivated some of the gears.


One scenario could make it good for climbing at higher rpm and descending with engine braking while the other could make it good for just descending with engine braking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Thanks for the tip on the Tow/Haul Mode.


Using that feature seems to have changed the shift points and the results seemed appropriate to the driving conditions despite the fact that I was not towing, and the load was empty.


Tow/Haul mode seems like a helpful and handy feature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Thanks for the tip on the Tow/Haul Mode.


Using that feature seems to have changed the shift points and the results seemed appropriate to the driving conditions despite the fact that I was not towing, and the load was empty.


Tow/Haul mode seems like a helpful and handy feature.
The T/H mode saves brake wear on steep downhills as well.
 
21 - 40 of 52 Posts
Top