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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Very short drives are killer on fuel economy.

This sounds like the ideal application for a Transit EV.

JimA - You might be able to sell yours at a profit, and get an EV Transit at a discount because some dealers were forced to take them, even in low-adoption areas, and regardless of whether they have the skills to even explain how it works.
Unfortunately I also have about $20k "invested" in the wheelchair adaptations so trading for an EV won't fly. Otherwise I'd be sriously thinking about it. But even for us the EV range is an issue even just making a quick trip Tucson - Phoenix for lunch. About 100 miles each way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Just thought of something. A/C is on full tilt and the engine auto start-stop only stops momentarily at a light. Tucson summer temps around 112 - 115 so lots of AC power draw
 

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Personally, I don't notice a drop in MPG when I'm using AC. Modern AC systems must be a lot more efficient than those from 40+ years ago. BUT, in my '03 Sprinter when I used both front and rear AC at the same time the MPG would drop from 25 to 23. I'd do that in the conditions you're driving in; anything above 110 required front and rear AC to cool it down after parking a while.
AC compressor is either on or off, fan speed probably contributes, those motors take a bit of juice. But if that were the case, more electrical demand on the alternator, having the headlights on would also drop MPG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
It can get to 140 - 150 in the van when it's parked so A/C is a BFD in these parts. Funny thing is that being outside at 110 isn't too uncomfortable if you're in the shade. We often go for coffe and sit outside under some orange trees.
 

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I kind of enjoy the sauna effect of SITTING IN THE SHADE in 110+ heat. I do not enjoy being in direct sunlight, or doing anything strenuous in it! Having run in Death Valley in 115 heat, I don't recommend it.
 

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22 RWD HR 148 EXT ordered 2/9/22
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We have 1294 miles on our 2022 HR 148WB 350HD EXT and we get about 15.5 mpg. On our recent trip to Big Sur, at one point we got 17 MPG. We haven’t built a whole lot in there yet, but we did have 3 families worth of camping gear in there (tents, ez ups, chairs, kitchens, coolers, food, and 5 people).
 

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2022 XLT Low-Roof Passenger (ordered Oct 2021, received May 2022)
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We've got ~300 miles on the odometer now on our LR passenger PFD engine and so far I think the computer says it's averaged around 16 mpg, but with a young family that does include some idling with the A/C running while we load everyone up, one of us runs into Walmart to get a few things while the other waits with the kids in the car and the car idling, etc. We did go on a 75 mile trip over the weekend and I reset the MPG calc on the trip odometer, was a mix of suburban and rural freeway at 60-70 mph and I got 20.2 mpg (I'm a relatively easy driver and I did turn on eco mode). I'll see if I get the 1-2 mpg improvement people seem to say that you get after the break-in period.
 

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Something is wrong.

I have the same van. Similar driving circumstances. Little bit higher % of highway miles, but not a lot.

When it was new/unloaded, for the first ~3k miles I averaged right at 20mpg.

Now that it's fully built (and ~2000# heavier) my lifetime average is at 17.4mpg over 33k miles.
 

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Wait a sec, are you guys driving CONNECTS, and not full size Transits?! How the heck are you getting 20+ mpg for a full tank of gas?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I think I've figured out what's going on. U've pretty well convinced myself that the way they calculate the MPG is in serious error. They seem to count time spent idling in Park as 0 miles every few seconds and average it all in. Wrong!!!!!

I'm in Tucson. When I drop my wife at the supermarket and wait in the car in 110 degree heat of course I keep the engine and A/C running. If she's only going to be in the store 20 minutes or so it doesn't make sense to deploy the wheelchair and go in with her. She'd be finished before I could deploy and then stow the chair.

Here's why I think they do it wrong

Let's assume that I'm getting 15 mpg.If I drive 15 miles I'll use 1 gallon. When I drive back on the same road (assuming same speed and other conditions) I'll use another gallon. If I sit at the store for an hour and burn another gallon, I should obviously decrement the distance to empty by 15 miles BUT my actual mpg when driving should stay at 15 mpg. When I'm sitting in Park with the engine running I may be consuming gasoline but that has nothing to do with mpg because I'm not driving.

My LR4 got it right. Parked time didn't seem to influence mpg even if the engine was running.

Anyhow this is my theory.
 

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You can get 20 easy if you stay under 60.
Sure, attempts at hypermiling would probably show that driving 45mph without accelerating or braking would deliver the most miles driven per gallon, probably 20+, but real-world driving at averaging 60 for a full tank has never done better than 18.5 for me. EDIT: I do recall a tank where I got 19.3, but started at around 7000' and ended around sea level.
 

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Jim, that's why you should always do hand calculation at fill-up. The onboard computerizers are consistently wrong, either by bad engineering or on purpose to make the van seem better than it is.
 

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2022 High Roof, Ext 148, DRW, AWD 15 passenger. I have around 1,500 miles down now and with reg gas 87 octane and 10% Ethanol, I'm getting 14-15mpg mostly city/short highway. Highway only is around 17.5-18mpg per the onboard computer. Higher Ethanol content in fuel = less engery and lower fuel economy. I need to verify the actual accuracy of the ECU's calculations with mileage and gallons missing.

ECO mode: I use it all of the time, and if you don't use it on the highway you likely won't ever get into 10th gear (which is 3rd overdrive gear) and best for highway fuel economy.10th is a third overdrive, 9th is the second overdrive, and 8th is first overdrive. Want to know what gear your in? Tap the side of the shift paw and it appears on the dash. Accelerate gently, the van is a huge mass of weight and takes a lot of energy to get things rolling, and far less to keep it rolling. Highway speeds 60-65mph ideally for best economy. Higher speeds and strong headwinds = less MPG. I'm happy with MPG I'm getting thus far and believe they are really good for such a high-profile heavy AWD vehicle but also wish that there was a Hybrid option for in town numbers. Doubt Ford will ever offer a Hybrid, prob just electric or gas.
 

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'21 XLT MR 148 Wagon, Eco, 3:31 LSD, RWD, PSD, NAV, ACC
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I think I've figured out what's going on. U've pretty well convinced myself that the way they calculate the MPG is in serious error. They seem to count time spent idling in Park as 0 miles every few seconds and average it all in. Wrong!!!!!

I'm in Tucson. When I drop my wife at the supermarket and wait in the car in 110 degree heat of course I keep the engine and A/C running. If she's only going to be in the store 20 minutes or so it doesn't make sense to deploy the wheelchair and go in with her. She'd be finished before I could deploy and then stow the chair.

Here's why I think they do it wrong

Let's assume that I'm getting 15 mpg.If I drive 15 miles I'll use 1 gallon. When I drive back on the same road (assuming same speed and other conditions) I'll use another gallon. If I sit at the store for an hour and burn another gallon, I should obviously decrement the distance to empty by 15 miles BUT my actual mpg when driving should stay at 15 mpg. When I'm sitting in Park with the engine running I may be consuming gasoline but that has nothing to do with mpg because I'm not driving.

My LR4 got it right. Parked time didn't seem to influence mpg even if the engine was running.

Anyhow this is my theory.
I think your theory is accurate.
Idle time does drop the MPG calculation/reading in my experience as well.
Significantly...or at least Noticeably.
10 mpg sounds stupid low to me though.
My most careless calculated MPG on a tank still came in over 13 but under 14. Hours of idling with the AC on and driving it as aggressively as I wanted. Apx. 50/50 city/hwy.

Whether this is sensible computation or not is debatable. After all, you did go ZERO miles on that fuel used....🤔
But it sure does make me think twice about extended idling and merciless use of remote start if I am chasing a high MPG number.

I remember in high school when we would review our mid-term performance, my teachers' explained to me that all those ZERO's were impossible to overcome. But what I really learned was acceptance.
 

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A Transit idling with both A/Cs running is a high load. Both because the compressor will be running at full duty cycle, and also the 60+ amps from the blowers. It probably burns 0.5 GPH in this state (which is better than the V10 which burns 0.8 GPH with both A/Cs on high).
 
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