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Isn’t one van AWD and the other 4X4?

Transit AWD cost, if around $4,500, is a bit higher than I expected. Still cheap compared to aftermarket options.

I look forward to all costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Some other changes to be aware of as far pricing.

Exterior colors going from $150 to $200
Enhanced Active Park Assist...$895
BLIS w/Cross Traffic Alert...$595
Dual 250 AMP Alternators..$495
Adaptive Cruise Control..$755
CrewVan model..$2210

These are just some of the NEW option prices. Get ready for the T-250 HR CrewVan AWD MSRP loaded with options to be close to $60K
 

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Isn’t one van AWD and the other 4X4?



Transit AWD cost, if around $4,500, is a bit higher than I expected. Still cheap compared to aftermarket options.



I look forward to all costs.


Sprinter 4x4 is a faux term. It is switchable AWD, and is not able to send 100% power to front wheels.
 

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Dual 250-Amp alternators for $495 is a great option price. That’s a small fraction of aftermarket 2nd alternator kits.

It’s a great first step towards an affordable battery-based electrical system. 👍
 

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Sprinter 4x4 is a faux term. It is switchable AWD, and is not able to send 100% power to front wheels.

Does it not have a transfer case, and with optional low range of 1.42:1?

And while I agree it can’t “technically” send 100% of power to front wheels, doesn’t it use traction system to send power to axle and wheel(s) with highest traction?

The traction system reportedly takes the place of up to 3 differential locks, so can divert power to wheels with traction. I’m guessing someone in off-road community will test and compare them as soon as they are available.
 

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Does it not have a transfer case, and with optional low range of 1.42:1?

And while I agree it can’t “technically” send 100% of power to front wheels, doesn’t it use traction system to send power to axle and wheel(s) with highest traction?

The traction system reportedly takes the place of up to 3 differential locks, so can divert power to wheels with traction. I’m guessing someone in off-road community will test and compare them as soon as they are available.

Sprinter does have the low range, but with EcoBoost torque, 10-speed 1st gear and axel ratios you can get reasonably low. "The Ford 10-speed has a first gear of 4.7:1, while the Sprinter 7-speed has a 4.377:1. The axle ratio of both can be specified to 4.1:1. The lowest overall ratio available in the Transit is 19.3:1, while the Sprinter with low range sits at 25.20:1. Add in the difference in available torque from the bi-turbo EcoBlue and… the low range of the Sprinter is not quite as magic as first brush reveals." You can read more here: https://expeditionportal.com/will-the-new-2020-4wd-ford-transit-dethrone-the-sprinter/

As far as Sprinter's traction control, it is highly reactive, and if the 4x4 system is based on what my 2WD traction control does on the rear axel, it's pretty much junk. I get stuck on wet leaves. At least the Transit offers a real limited slip mechanical diff, which is more than what sprinter does.

Read a comparison here: https://ourkaravan.com/4x4_sprinter_and_transit_vans/
 

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Thanks for posting this. Before reading it I had assumed that the Sprinter 4x4 system was a good one, but hadn't researched them much because of higher cost, lack of availability, etc. What concerns me the most after reading the comparison is the lack of shift on the fly in the Sprinter and the fact that it sometimes takes movement of the wheels to lock in the 4x4. I had a mid 80s Jeep cherokee that was this way and it sucked big time. I had a steep driveway off a busy road and if I pulled into the driveway in 2wd in snow and got stuck, I was screwed -- could not engage 4X4. Feeling better and better about the Transit possibilities. Looking forward to seeing 2020 prices for AWD and comparing that with the Quigley/Quadvan conversions on a used Transit.
 

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I was only commenting as to why Sprinter system may be close to twice as expensive. I was not making a case for Sprinter being better. The simpler AWD is more than enough for me. I can get by fine with 2WD, but an affordable AWD is of interest. However, at $4,500 I would likely pass on this option.
 

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Wait, what? Can any 4 x 4 send 100% to the front wheels?




Perhaps not, but in the Sprinter can't even send an even 50/50 distribution of torque to front and read axels, which I think would be expected of a 4x4.



It seems the transfer case of a traditional 4x4 might provide a fixed amount of power distribution like a center diff locker, but the best Sprinter does is 33% torque to the front and 67% to the rear. Per Mercedes "the engageable all-wheel drive in the Sprinter does not result in a rigid through-drive."



You have to switch to "4x4" mode at low speed or stopped, just like a 4x4 with locking diffs, except that nothing is actually locked.

So, Sprinter doesn’t offer traditional 4x4 capability, it is a switchable AWD, and is not competitive with AWD systems that can shift torque 100% front or rear.
 

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Thanks for posting this. Before reading it I had assumed that the Sprinter 4x4 system was a good one, but hadn't researched them much because of higher cost, lack of availability, etc. What concerns me the most after reading the comparison is the lack of shift on the fly in the Sprinter and the fact that it sometimes takes movement of the wheels to lock in the 4x4. I had a mid 80s Jeep cherokee that was this way and it sucked big time. I had a steep driveway off a busy road and if I pulled into the driveway in 2wd in snow and got stuck, I was screwed -- could not engage 4X4. Feeling better and better about the Transit possibilities. Looking forward to seeing 2020 prices for AWD and comparing that with the Quigley/Quadvan conversions on a used Transit.
I am doing the same thing. I have a Quadvan reservation, but do I go with a $30K used transit and a $15K conversion, or $60K for a new transit exactly the way I want it with a factory AWD system and new warranty? It will probably be at least 6 months on a new one though?
 

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You might still pickup a NEW 2019 depending on the options you want and then use your scheduled reservation at QuadVan. Let me know what you are looking for in detail and it may be hiding on a Ford dealer lot. I have a 2019 HR 148" WB van on the lot NOW with some good options on it. Just email me at [email protected] and let me know in detail what you are looking for. You could still order a 2020 RWD van and see if they could use yours as the engineering setup for the 10 speed automatic transmission.
 

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Perhaps not, but in the Sprinter can't even send an even 50/50 distribution of torque to front and read axels, which I think would be expected of a 4x4.



It seems the transfer case of a traditional 4x4 might provide a fixed amount of power distribution like a center diff locker, but the best Sprinter does is 33% torque to the front and 67% to the rear. Per Mercedes "the engageable all-wheel drive in the Sprinter does not result in a rigid through-drive."



You have to switch to "4x4" mode at low speed or stopped, just like a 4x4 with locking diffs, except that nothing is actually locked.

So, Sprinter doesn’t offer traditional 4x4 capability, it is a switchable AWD, and is not competitive with AWD systems that can shift torque 100% front or rear.
We need to remember that marketing can use correct definition of “power” and “torque” to mislead if they want. Unfortunately, the average person doesn’t understand the difference between the correct technical use of the terms torque and power versus the way we use them in everyday communication, so ads can imply one thing to sell vehicles while it means something a little different in design.

For example, if you jack the rear tires of a Sprinter off the ground, those rear tires will have no traction and therefore no torque or power capabilities (in steady state anyway). Since the center differential does not lock, then the front wheels also won’t get any useful torque or power.

However, as soon as the rear wheels start spinning in mid air, if the system brakes only the rear wheels, torque is then automatically sent to front. In this case is it 100%? No, because rear brakes are wasting what goes to back axle, but from a usefulness standpoint, the front axle gets 100% of drive torque delivered to ground. Any torque at front wheels is 100% of useful torque since rear tires in air still get 0%.

Mercedes center differential versus a "rigid through-drive" can be seen as a good thing in my opinion for highway driving. The “normal” torque split of 33/67 also seems like a good thing since it only applies while tires are not spinning. Once any tire spins and brake is applied, everything changes.


I don’t recall if Transit system is 50/50 or some other percentage split. In AWD for primary highway driving it’s not unusual for vehicles based on RWD layout to send more to the rear axle. FWD-based AWD can have higher front axle bias by comparison.
 

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I am doing the same thing. I have a Quadvan reservation, but do I go with a $30K used transit and a $15K conversion, or $60K for a new transit exactly the way I want it with a factory AWD system and new warranty? It will probably be at least 6 months on a new one though?
I'm hoping the 2020 AWDs don't go to $60K. When I priced the Transit I wanted on the 2019 Ford build site before it was taken down, the MSR ended up being about $46K. I'm hoping that with the added year price change, AWD, adaptive cruise, and maybe swiveling seats, we might be in the neighborhood of about $55K. I'm also in a position to wait until they offer incentives about this time next year. For anyone wanting something sooner than that the choice gets harder.

I've heard good things about Quadvan, and do typically drive to the Left Coast each summer, but when I visited their web page recently it gives you an error message when you click on the Transit link. It doesn't inspire confidence.
 

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When I priced the Transit I wanted on the 2019 Ford build site before it was taken down.
It appears to be back up, and the pricing has gone up a little. This happened with the 2018 model year as well. Near the end of the year the prices went up, then when the 2019 came out they could claim that the price increase was only "X% from 2018". Many manufacturers do this.

but when I visited their web page recently it gives you an error message when you click on the Transit link. It doesn't inspire confidence.
I wouldn't let that sway your decision in any way. Any companies products, abilities, technical achievements, etc can be pretty darn impressive while they don't have an IT guy who can do web sites, and can't afford to hire a company. They have a waiting list of several months as it is. Marketing isn't what they need more of.
 
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