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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm shopping for a Cargo Van for a Camper Van Conversion. I know you can't order Ford's nice, 10-way power leather seats in a Cargo Van and also get swivels (so you have to bump down to the 4-way manual cloth seats). But has anyone noticed that the:

Programmable Battery Guard/Enhanced Cut-off Relay (59C)

is

"Not available with Push Down Manual Parking Brake (90G), Power Outlet – 110V/150W (90C) or Power Outlet – 110V/400W (90D)"

If you're doing a Camper Van Conversion, you likely want dual AGM batteries, the relay, a power outlet and seat swivels. And since the downgrade to:

Dark Palazzo Gray Cloth, 4-way manual swivel Driver and 4-way manual swivel Passenger seats (21T)
"Requires Push Down Manual Parking Brake (90G) and Dual AGM Batteries (63E)."

it ends up that ordering the swivel seats requires the push-down brake which precludes the ability to isolate the accessory AGM battery from the starter AGM battery with the cut-off relay. We're a long way from the 10-way power leather seats now!!

I get that you need the push-down brake (clearance) for the swivels:

"The push down manual parking brake feature allows the driver to push the hand lever to the fully down position, while the parking brake remains engaged. This is particularly useful in situations where additional clearance to pass over the parking brake lever is necessary, such as a swivel seat."

but is it the same for the Dual AGM batteries (likely a different seat base)?

And since the swivel indirectly precludes the cutoff relay, you cannot use the Dual AGM Batteries as a Camper Van might, with the accessory AGM battery as a "house battery" isolated from the starter AGM battery with the factory cut-off relay (so as not to disable the van).

Call me crazy, but if those features have been added for uses like Camper Vans, they should be available together!! Bad enough you have to give up the 10-way Power / leather seats to get the swivels in the first place...not well thought out, Ford!!

I'm guessing the 110V power outlets only work with the van running...so the cut-off relay would have no effect, anyway (only works when the engine's not running). I will replace the 110V with a house inverter eventually, but I wanted the 110V to maybe run a small refrigerator in the mean time. In any case, guess I'm skipping the 110V outlet. But the dual AGM batteries still aren't isolated, and I do want to run house LED lighting, for example from the accessory AGM battery, and still be able to swivel the front seats to eat a meal or work, for example. (I will add a LiFePO4 house battery bank / inverter / solar panels / charger eventually, but it seemed like Dual AGM Batteries / Cut-off Relay could have been a good place to start.) I know there are ways around this, and as I said, I will get there...but shouldn't consumers be able to use these options together, straight from the factory, "out-of-the-box" so to speak?

So now if I go 2020 Ford Transit Cargo Van I can't have:

HID Headlamps (91A)

with AWD I also can't have:

16” Styled Aluminum Wheel (64S)

and now with seat swivels I also cannot have:

Ebony Leather, 10-way power Driver and 10-way power Passenger seats (21S)
Programmable Battery Guard/Enhanced Cut-off Relay (59C)
Power Outlet - 110V/400W (90D)

That's a lot of options to have to leave behind to come over to Ford. Think about it, Ford!

As I shop for a van, I have to say, on the 2020 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter you can order:

LED High Performance Headlamps (LG7)
Partial LED Tail Lights (L22)
Light-alloy Wheels 6.5 J x 16 (RL5)
Swivel Base for Driver’s + Co-Driver’s Seat (SR8/SR9)
Driver's Seat/Passenger Frame, Low (S87/S88) accommodates swivels
Cutoff Relay for Additional Battery (E36)
Electrical Parking Brake (B25) or Handbrake Lever, Folding (BE2) with no swivel conflicts
Armrest for Driver's/Passenger Seat (S22/S25)
Driver’s/Co-Driver's Seat Electrically Adjustable (SF1/SF2)
Heated Front Driver's/Passenger Seat (H15/H16)
Additional (AGM 12 V 92 Ah 840A) Battery for Retrofit Consumers, Engine Compartment (E2M)
AGM Battery 12 V 92 Ah 850A (ED4) starter battery
115 V Socket (EE3) runs for up to four hours with the engine off
Leather Steering Wheel (CL3)

All without interference when ordering. No leather seats (maybe not best for camping, anyway). But that's still quite a difference to #VanLife -er's and #CamperVan -s. (I just can't get past the M-B 2.0L I4 gas engine...but that's a whole 'nuther thread... UGH!!)
 

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Sprinter Envy - suffering a bit from that myself. To your list I would add, proximity unlock, keyless push button start, column mount shifter, 360 degree cameras, true adaptive (stop/start) cruise control, and a few other techo goodies. However I am still firmly in the Transit camp because of that lovely gas ecoboost engine, 10 speed transmission, Ford dealers and mechanics just about everywhere and for me, the mid roof, short wheelbase which MB just doesn't have.
 

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I'm shopping for a Cargo Van for a Camper Van Conversion. I know you can't order Ford's nice, 10-way power leather seats in a Cargo Van and also get swivels (so you have to bump down to the 4-way manual cloth seats). But has anyone noticed that . . .

. . .with AWD I also can't have:

16” Styled Aluminum Wheel (64S) . . .
The AWD has hub-piloted, six-lug hub system that uses a different forged aluminum wheel option.
SRW 16” Forged Aluminum Wheel (64G)
 

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The FPBG does not isolate one of the batteries from the other (it is also late availability). The Standard Battery Guard will shed loads as needed to maintain the operation and ability to start the engine if those loads are connected to the Customer Power Points or though the aux fuse panel (which is powered by the CCP). Any other loads connected to the battery should be controlled by the load shed signal of the vehicle via a relay.

CCP2 has a capacity of 175A at 12v. That's 2,100 Watts of power which should be enough for a camper unless you are trying to run A/C off grid or something extraordinary.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My order has the swivels and dual batteries.
Yeah, but when you take the swivels it cancels a lot of other things you should be able to use together. In case I wasn’t clear, I mean to say all of the Camper Van Conversion-friendly items aren’t available together; perhaps they should be. Prime example: swivels cancels the cut-off relay that would nicely isolate those batteries (as I detailed above).

How do you like the swivels? Are your batteries under seat or hood? What sort of accessories are you running, and how’s that going?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The AWD has hub-piloted, six-lug hub system that uses a different forged aluminum wheel option.
SRW 16” Forged Aluminum Wheel (64G)
Yeah, I mentioned that one (of 3 Forged Aluminum code variants) isn’t as nice to look at...for me anyway...

No matter, starting to think, “Race Red” Transit with black aftermarket wheels? We’ll see.

If Sprinter had a naturally aspirated V6 gas engine I’d be over on the Sprinter Forum now... Their Equipment Book (over 100 pages), Dealer Ordering Guide and Body and Equipment Guide are SO thorough, it’s a van orderer’s dream. Hard to understand how I can pore over Ford literature for hours and still not find answers about what’s going to be on a $65,000 vehicle. Why do people settle for this? (But I digress...)

What wheels do you have?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Sprinter Envy - suffering a bit from that myself. To your list I would add...
OMG, my complete MB Sprinter 2500 170”WB options list is as long as my arm, LOL!! (But I was trying to only keep on-topic...mostly! Ha.)

MB diesels are having trouble in the U.S. and are rumored to possibly be departing our shores. Seems they only like to drink B5 diesel (or less) or the works get quite literally gummed up (stated DEEP in the owner’s manual, too, so no warranty relief for the ignorant & unlucky.) Here, B20 is not uncommon (Europe is more strict?) and the higher 20% biodiesel isn’t getting along with all of that emissions...stuff. My unscientific observation is that many stations don’t even have “B” labels at all. How can you deal
with that?

I don’t personally think a gas 2.0L twin turbo I4 is an answer, either. (I would never put any turbo on a “reliability” list.) And didn’t vans, um, come with, oh, a VEE-EIGHT back in the day? Not an expert on that, but FOUR? A tiny, little four banger? Really?

If I order the Transit, it will be for the 3.5L PFDi DOHC V6 & the Intelligent AWD.

V6 because I have a Dodge Challenger with the naturally aspirated 3.6L V6 (can you say, “Pentastar?”) and it does 0-60 in 6.1 and still gets 30 MPG on the highway. (3 years old, zero issues.) AWD because I drove Seattle to Wilmington, NC in December in an intelligent AWD Subaru, even on I-70 (minutes before it closed) outside of Denver when even big 4x4 trucks were flipped in the center median...wow, what a feature.

The Pentastar is also inside the ProMaster, but alas, the short length of the 3500 159” WB EXT is still too short for my needs. (Sigh.) My wife still wants to make it work!
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The FPBG does not isolate one of the batteries from the other (it is also late availability). The Standard Battery Guard will shed loads as needed to maintain the operation and ability to start the engine if those loads are connected to the Customer Power Points or though the aux fuse panel (which is powered by the CCP). Any other loads connected to the battery should be controlled by the load shed signal of the vehicle via a relay.

CCP2 has a capacity of 175A at 12v. That's 2,100 Watts of power which should be enough for a camper unless you are trying to run A/C off grid or something extraordinary.
I studied the battery/power Overview of System schematics in the Body & Equipment Mounting Manual, but admittedly, it had been a while. (I think I confused the 3rd party battery with the 2nd AGM; I've been spending DaYs going over the details of Transit, Sprinter and ProMaster vans leading up to ordering.) I see now the dual AGM's are in parallel. Anyway, I knew of the 175 A CCP2 (best in class, actually, I’ll be charging LiFePO4’s with that and running an inverter for sure, one of my most wanted features). The FPBG is capable of 200A loads, still would like that. (Don't know if a 1400W rear A/C unit is sustainable while driving, haven't gotten that far in research, but 120A continuous is okay w/ FPBG...just don't know if that leaves enough for the rest. Transit's 250A alternator is far ahead of the 180A standard on the ProMaster, for sure, so it is better.) I’ll check out the Standard Battery Guard, didn't see it in the Order Guide but it shows up in the BEMM, thanks for the tips!

Only running the accessories I mentioned for now, until the real “house” power system (LiFePO4 bank / inverter / solar modules / charger controller) goes in (some day). My wife heard about 12V radiant floor heat so we gotta have that now, LOL, and there’s a 12V production A/C unit out of AZ. (“True 12V A/C” is what I’ve heard. The low-height air outlets are an issue, apparently, for the floor install. Plus is no water leaking from the roof.) So later on, all bets are off!!
 

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Yeah, but when you take the swivels it cancels a lot of other things you should be able to use together. In case I wasn’t clear, I mean to say all of the Camper Van Conversion-friendly items aren’t available together; perhaps they should be. Prime example: swivels cancels the cut-off relay that would nicely isolate those batteries (as I detailed above).

How do you like the swivels? Are your batteries under seat or hood? What sort of accessories are you running, and how’s that going?
I don't have the van yet. Should be early March?
 

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Batteries are under the driver's seat. CPPs are are at the base of the driver's pedestal.

You have a point about the interactions of different options but that is to be expected in a program as complex and diverse as the Transit. It's reality. If I were the program manager I would be pushing for development of an electric e-brake that would solve manifold issues and increase safety/utility.

We also have to keep in mind that the DIY conversion market is likely not market segment that is profitable for them to pursue.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You have a point about the interactions of different options...

...also have to keep in mind that the DIY conversion market is likely not [the] market segment that is profitable...
Yeah, only saying that particular group of model+options should likely be available together. It's a pretty big oversight to offer those things and not consider selling them together (like the aforementioned potential Camper Van Conversion "package").

Still, some options alone are not very en-light-ened (ha). For example (wondering): maybe Ford thought HID Headlamps on a Cargo Van meant they'd be getting hit by cargo or fixed objects (Ram moved all perimeter lights up on the ProMaster to avoid damage from collisions/impacts) and too expensive to maintain. "Cargo" gets delivered mostly in the daytime? Who knows. I think anyone logging high miles would want top-of-the-line headlights for safety. (I like those odds.) Daytime running lamps? I mean, seriously...

Point is, options so the vehicles can be tailored to the needs of the customers. And sure, Conversion Vans are never going to be Ford's "bread & butter," but in a world where market share growth (everything in a mature market) can only come from slicing away from someone else's sales, the van manufacturer that recognizes how #VanLife is currently blowing up stands to rake in that bounty for a while. The way I've detailed how Mercedes-Benz caters to the availability of detailed information alone puts them well ahead of the rest. (Now if Ford only had a manual that explained all of their options, in detail, with photos.)

In the end, it comes down to available options, even after all the documentation. That's where Ford could benefit itself and consumers.
 

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Yeah, only saying that particular group of model+options should likely be available together. It's a pretty big oversight to offer those things and not consider selling them together
I don't think it is oversight as much as the realities of feature interactions as components are developed and evolved. I hear you, but it's one thing wish for something and another thing to make it happen especially with a program that has such diverse use cases and constituencies along with a rapidly evolving safety and compliance environment. And in the BEMM there is reference to a "camper" package that has different electrical system programming (can be obtained from the dealer) but it sounds like it is aimed at upfitters who are not going to want to pay Ford for $1K+ for swivel seats and other features they can source/build themselves.
 

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Yeah, I mentioned that one (of 3 Forged Aluminum code variants) isn’t as nice to look at...for me anyway...

No matter, starting to think, “Race Red” Transit with black aftermarket wheels? We’ll see.

If Sprinter had a naturally aspirated V6 gas engine I’d be over on the Sprinter Forum now... Their Equipment Book (over 100 pages), Dealer Ordering Guide and Body and Equipment Guide are SO thorough, it’s a van orderer’s dream. Hard to understand how I can pore over Ford literature for hours and still not find answers about what’s going to be on a $65,000 vehicle. Why do people settle for this? (But I digress...)

What wheels do you have?
I currently have Alcoa wheels on my 3500 Dually Sprinter. Looking close at replacing it with a Transit. That's why I'm all over the Ford ordering guide. It is a hot mess compared to the Mercedes Sprinter ordering guide.
 

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Who did you order with? Did you get your build date? Are you awaiting local delivery or flying to MCI for a pickup?
I worked with Ed @[email protected] to get the guide and get my valid order in the system. That armed me with information to see if I could deal with the Ford dealer .5 miles from my home. It worked out great on all fronts. I feel I have t good relationship with the dealer and a friend in Ed. Ed even called to a couple of times to see how things were going with the local guys.
 

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I worked with Ed @[email protected] to get the guide and get my valid order in the system. That armed me with information to see if I could deal with the Ford dealer .5 miles from my home. It worked out great on all fronts. I feel I have t good relationship with the dealer and a friend in Ed. Ed even called to a couple of times to see how things were going with the local guys.
Out of curiosity, did you buy the B-O-B book from matt ford? If so, did you find it especially useful?
 

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Out of curiosity, did you buy the B-O-B book from matt ford? If so, did you find it especially useful?
I did. It was definitely with the 40 bucks. I don't know if I would have been able to get what I want just through conversations with the dealer..
 

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Out of curiosity, did you buy the B-O-B book from matt ford? If so, did you find it especially useful?
I ordered the BOB book from Matt Ford and placed my order through them as well. The book was tremendously helpful to understand what options were available and Ed was always available to answer any questions and point me in the right direction. Once I gave him my desired list of options, he got it loaded into the system, verified everything was correct, and now I'm eagerly awaiting word of a build date! My local dealers seemed clueless about the Transits, and I have no problem traveling to purchase a vehicle out of state, so for me the BOB service made a ton of sense and I'm very pleased with it so far!
 
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