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Hey, I was wondering if anyone know the time out for the 175A CCP2 on a 2020 transit. The BEMM says it is a controlled stud, unlike CCP1 which is hot all of the time. My question is what does controlled mean. I hooked my multimeter up to the CCP2 turned the van on and then off, and then waited to see how long it would take to stop providing power to the CCP2. After 20 or 30 minutes thought I might be doing something wrong, so I gave up. When I went back out an hour or two later the power has been cut off. So it seems to be somewhere between those two time frames. Does anyone know the specifics of this? And, does anybody know if the customer connection points are protected by Ford's battery protection system (whatever they call it)? i.e. If you were to drain your starter batteries to a certain low voltage, will that override the timed time out?
 

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Hey, I was wondering if anyone know the time out for the 175A CCP2 on a 2020 transit. The BEMM says... If you were to drain your starter batteries to a certain low voltage, will that override the timed time out?
So, I submitted a ticket with the Ford BBAS and talked to Ron Fuller, one of the electrical service representatives. Even he could not give me a clear answer on this. I was asking him specifically about alternator charging as I'm still on the fence between a Victron Cyrix setup and a Victron Orion (or Sterling B2B) setup. He stated that CCP2 will even time out while the engine is running, which I could not find in the BEMM. He also stated that it's safe to use the full 175 A from CCP2 for long durations of time, but the BEMM states that "up to 120A = continuous" and that "161A to 175A = 8 to 14 minutes."
Regardless, I'm very confident that the vehicle will cut power to either CCP in order to protect the starter battery(ies) from dropping below a level required to start the engine.
 

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My experience with a small load (one LiPo house battery with internal B2B charging, in turn running a 12V fridge and occasional USB charging) is that it times out when it feels like it, and occasionally comes back on when you don’t expect it. After all, battery SOC is dependent on load, temperature, etc as well as battery voltage so it could appear to be a bit unpredictable while still working to spec. 2020 dual battery Transit.
 

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Keep in mind there is "timeout" (which is programmed for a certain number of minutes) and then there is "Load Shedding" which is controlled by the vehicle charging system. Both of these are described in the BEMM. BTW there is. service notice out there for extending the timeout from 60 min to 90 min. This means some 2020s in the wild are going to have different timeout programming. My dealer set mine to 90 min without asking me. It won't have any practical effect on my house charging as mine is controlled by "ignition on".
 

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Keep in mind there is "timeout" (which is programmed for a certain number of minutes) and then there is "Load Shedding" which is controlled by the vehicle charging system. Both of these are described in the BEMM. BTW there is. service notice out there for extending the timeout from 60 min to 90 min. This means some 2020s in the wild are going to have different timeout programming. My dealer set mine to 90 min without asking me.
Have you been able to determine how load shedding is controlled to "protect" vehicle battery voltage?
I am trying to understand if it cuts backs current as it approaches the minimum vehicle voltage parameter or if there is no intermediate current reduction and it just shuts off all current when the minimum voltage is reached (like a voltage sensing relay would).
It won't have any practical effect on my house charging as mine is controlled by "ignition on".
In my research on B to B chargers I have not seen anything in the Renogy documentation that says removing the ignition signal turns the B to B charger off. Their documentation, which is not very specific, indicates the use of the ignition signal is for vehicles with a smart alternator (like the Transit) that runs in the 12.5-13.5V range vs a conventional alternator that runs around 14.4V. This seems to indicate that the presence of an ignition signal is used to reduce the voltages required to start/stop charging (like Sterling and Kisea do). Renogy does not indicate how the unit functions when there is no ignition signal. It may just revert back to the higher start/stop voltage requirements used for conventional alternator charging (again like Sterling and Kisea do). This might mean that the Renogy will charge the in the absence of the ignition signal as long as the vehicle is above the (unspecified) minimum voltage required in the conventional alternator parameters. I am not saying that the Renogy does not turn off when the ignition signal is removed, just that I did not see that explicitly in the documentation. Have you confirmed with Renogy technical support or your by your own testing. The latter I would trust, the former not so much, :) Yes- I have been following your nice build.

(FWIW I see that Sterling now has firmware on their UK models that has a additional ignition signal mode. The presence of the signal enables charging at a lower voltage and shuts the charger off when the signal voltage is removed. This must be configured in the settings).
So, I submitted a ticket with the Ford BBAS and talked to Ron Fuller, one of the electrical service representatives. Even he could not give me a clear answer on this. I was asking him specifically about alternator charging as I'm still on the fence
I would like to use two 50A B to B chargers in parallel on the 175A CCP2. Since the chargers would not be synchronized there will need to be a high enough voltage to start second after the first one starts. There are several ways I could go about implementing this setup. Depending on the operating parameters of the CCP2, the vehicle voltage/ battery protection it provides could be a useful feature ... or make no difference ... or require a work around. Accurate information from the manufacturer would be a good thing. Glad to know Ford is able to provide definitive support for the $55k vehicle that's being delivered to me shortly.:rolleyes: (BTW - Tech support at both Sterling and Kisea was excellent. They went above and beyond answering my questions on their $300-$400 devices. Renogy was not.)
 

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Have you confirmed with Renogy technical support or your by your own testing.
Great question. And no I don't bother with Renogy support. And if I had it to do over again I would likely go Victron for charging. That being said the Renogy just works and works like I thought it would.

To answer your question we will need to look to the Victron gear in my installation for answers. The Victron Smart Shunt has the option to measure starting battery voltage which can do until CCP2 cuts off. (I am considering just using CCP1 for this reason and to gain the solar trickle charge of the vehicle battery). The screen shot below is from the Victron VRM portal. This is enabled by the Victron Cerbo GX which aggregates and controls multiple components and other things and also serves up the data to their cloud. This screen shows 2 days worth of data and you can see from the arrows I call out the solar charging occurring from the van sitting in the driveway. Then you can see when I go run some errands as the current and voltage spike up. And then you see when I arrive back home... the charging current goes back down and eventually CCP times out after the charger stops drawing current. So it seems to behaving as if controlled by the IGN signal.

143764
 

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you see when I arrive back home... the charging current goes back down and eventually CCP times out after the charger stops drawing current. So it seems to behaving as if controlled by the IGN signal.
If I understand your graphs, and I am certainly may not 🤔, I am still not sure they confirm removing the ignition signal from the Renogy stops the flow of current from the vehicle battery.

It looks like the vehicle voltage holds steady for the first 2/3 of the time out period, then drops a small amount in at a linear rate before the CCP shuts off. So CCP could have shut off as a result of that voltage drop or even some combination voltage and time. . Of course this voltage drop could just be some "noise" in your system.

Near the end of your driving period, there is a rapid rise house battery voltage. The 13.34V house voltage shown on your graph may be above the lower limit for charging to be initiated. Renogy refers to a 12.3V under voltage recovery (vehicle?) and a 13.2 V boost return voltage (solar?) for lithium.

It might be interesting to see what your graphs would look like if you shut of the vehicle with the house battery at a less than 13.2V to see if the solar only provides charging and at less that 12.3V with/without solar input to see if the vehicle and/or solar provide charging.

A potentially useful experiment would be to see how charging functions during vehicle run without ignition signal or smart charging compared to your current "smart" configuration in different driving conditions (star stop disable button allegedly also disables smart alternator parameters) . Perhaps "normal" alternator charging is faster than smart alternator charging in some conditions. Adding a switch in the ignition signal line would make this easy to control.

None of this is really material since your system is meeting your needs, but could be "fun" to use the empirical evidence from your neat data logging to figure out how your charger and the Ford electrical system work.

It's best I avoid getting an advanced monitoring system, these distractions might not go over well with my navigator.🤐
 

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None of this is really material since your system is meeting your needs, but could be "fun" to use the empirical evidence from your neat data logging to figure out how your charger and the Ford electrical system work.
Yeah.. I left things open to interpretation on purpose. And we can only guess about some things as this is merely the view from the Smart Shunt. It would have been nice if the BT-2 device attached to the Renogy charger would have worked and the app built to actually support the device. But alas it's crap. This is why I wish I had Victron chargers. But while this setup does not totally satisfy my curiosity, it does perform predictably and well day over day at home and on trips.
 
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