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Would the Stop/Start system on a 2020 Transit make you get a 2019?

21K views 74 replies 33 participants last post by  Chance 
#1 ·
With the Start/Stop System being added to so many Ford vehicles once they get updated electronic systems introduced to their NEW models, would you buy a 2019 model to keep from getting a Transit with this on it?

Once we get the information on the 2020 Transit, there will be about a 2 to 3 week time frame when you will be able to order a 2019 model. As of now, the last day to order a 2019 model will be May 31st. First orders for the 2020 model can be taken on June 17th and those orders will be held as a group until July 18th when scheduling will begin. First scheduled 2020 build dates will begin on September 9th or earlier based on how the last 2019 orders get processed.

Many things can change those dates from a increase or decrease in 2019 Transit orders to any plant changes that may need to be made for beginning the 2020 model production. If a AWD model is part of the 2020 production, there may need to be added areas for this particular model and they may stop the assembly line for a short time to get this area completed.
 
#2 ·
It would for me were I in the market. I'm conservative in wanting my technology proven over multiple millions of miles and at least several years.

I prefer to keep things as simple as possible on the theory that complex systems are less reliable. Especially 'non-essential' applications like start-stop.

I picked the more complex engine option over the simpler because power. I feel that one was a better tradeoff than would be start-stop.
 
#3 ·
Start/Stop is a reason not buy a new vehicle. My 2017 Porsche Boxster had it. Horrible. With some Googling I found a supplier that sold a defeat module for $200. Bought and installed that to eliminate the dreaded start/stop.

Might be better with an automatic transmission than it is with a manual.
 
#4 ·
On late model FCA vehicles (Chrysler/Jeep), start/stop is selectable off by the driver. It is then disabled till the next time you start vehicle. If that is too much for you to do every time you drive, there are disable modules that permanently turn it off.
 
#6 ·
Unfortunately the Porsche does not have a select start/stop switch. It does have a defeat button. So each time you started the car the next step was to push the defeat button if you remembered. The problem with the Porsche was moving at slow speeds in a parking lot it would start/stop while moving. That provided very expensive mechanical sounds. The defeat module I bought is installed in the wire going to the defeat button. Module retains the last setting.
 
#5 ·
While my 2016 Transit was in the shop waiting for a part to be manufactured for the navigation system (6 days) - all under my extended warranty - I was provided with a 2019 Escape which has the start/stop "feature". The Escape has a defeat switch. At first I was anoyed by the start/stop but quickly discovered that it was almost transparent to the driver and that it did appear to help the mileage.

I note in my Transit that the MPG display will steadily tick down as I sit in Seattle traffic. I have started shutting down the mighty EB 3.5 on the the I-5 when stopped for minutes (this happens often in Seattle). The van always starts immediately and I doubt the other drivers in the miles of stopped traffic notice.

YMMV

I am just short of 100,000 miles on my Transit and will be in the market for a new one probably in 2020. If AWD or 4WD was available from factory, I would order today.

Been driving vans since 1967 (all Ford except for one POS Dodge - I bent it's unibody when backing up an incline with the door opened).
 
#7 ·
It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, much of my time is city driving and I spend a lot of time waiting for lights to turn green.
I would PREFER a select switch, but as this is proven and reliable technology I'm not scared of it being full-time.
I'm more interested in a PHEV Transit; if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg over the base model. $1000 of gas is about 5200 miles at current rates.
 
#8 ·
wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, its been out in other vehicles so it isn't new tech. I would be interested in an electric or hydrogen or hybrid model too if it isn't that much more than the gas options. It would have to at least get me 200 miles on a charge...most of my driving is local and within that range...I should say 200 miles in the winter....heard some tesla's range were severely degraded with the cold....
 
#9 · (Edited)
I wouldn't want start/stop even if seamless it adds extra parts to break down at some point- lot more wear on a starter and some electric motor to keep the A/C running.
If I could buy an electric Transit that would go 300 miles towing the max rating at 65mph and charge in an hour I'd be interested.
 
#23 ·
If I could buy an electric Transit that would go 300 miles towing the max rating at 65mph and charge in an hour I'd be interested.
My son just bought a Tesla Model 3. I wasn't too keen on them... but, I have to say after going to their store and riding in his car, and watching a slew of YouTube video's - I've changed my opinion of electric vehicles in general. There's no doubt they are the wave of the future and I think the big automobile manufacturers are very concerned. They seem to have redone the business model to play catch-up...

I would absolutely buy an electric Transit if it could go 300 miles on a charge. Battery technology is ever changing and this is the key to automobiles of the future. imho


Tesla has a prototype semi-tractor trailer in testing... some very exciting things on the horizon.
 
#14 ·
who's in charge of the program

CrewVanManInfo,

Can you use your contacts to get some insider info on the difference between how the 2015 Transit was brought in from over the pond and the same for the 2019 Ranger? What actually goes into converting the brains and mechanics from Euro to USA, what type of teams do they use to accomplish this and who headed them up?

I've looked at the As-Built file for the 2019 Transit, compared it to the 2019 Ranger and a 2019 Raptor. The Ranger had the start/stop and it's As-Built looked very similar to the Raptor. Even with the progress the transit has made, it still looks closer to it's Euro cousins.

How the start/stop would be integrated in with the transit's other modules and who's in charge of the process might make a difference. I think things like how (and why) we can't get simple things like the separate TPMS readings (when they are available) has something to do with who's in charge of the program.

Thanks,
ShadeTreeMech
 
#15 ·
I fear that while it helps manufacturers with mpg ratings and the govt but is a disservice to the owner. My theory is more wear on starter and more wear on engine as I have to think there is disproportionately more wear on start than running due to oil pressure not bein up at start. I also have to think emissions parts will go sooner as more incomplete burn and gunk junk is created on start. Then there’s the torque stresses on startup (things at rest tend to stay at rest). Am I wrong in theory?
 
#17 · (Edited)
Am I wrong in theory?
I think so. I wouldn't mind start/stop once a manufacturer has proven it knows how it do it seamlessly in a particular vehicle. In my mind Ford hasn't done that in the Transit.

The starters and other parts are upsized for longevity. They're not using the same tiny starter that would fail quickly for start/stop. The engine parts are still going to be oiled after a few minutes of stop while an engine sitting all night might not. Similarly, the cat is still going to be hot. Engines are designed to handle a lot more torque stresses than seen on a start.
 
#18 ·
In the Porsche I have the best combination. Have all the mechanical and electrical upgrades required for the addition of start/stop but I eliminated the function with an aftermarket defeat module. Better reliability without the irritation of start/stop.
 
#19 ·
I didn't realize the start/stop systems were becoming commonplace. Helps explain why I've been encountering more people ahead of me at stoplights, that take just a bit longer to get moving. (Those are the ones that aren't obviously distracted by their hair, phone, kids, etc.)


I think the best use-case for start-stop is stop-go commuting. No one's going anywhere fast, so, it doesn't matter if take-offs are a bit slowed.


But, I would also be wary about extra wear on starter, and from low-oil-pressure engine starts.
 
#21 ·
Dodge has hybrid in their trucks. Ford has stated Transits get the same stuff for 2020. About 10% claimed better mileage. More, if you put a ton of "conversion crap" in your van. Electric "on-demand" oil pump. Good "start-stop" feature. I hope ford retains the old starter position with a cover plate. I might want to use the position for an additional alternator. USAF Electronics School: "DC series wound motors rarely fail".
 
#22 ·
There are some traffic lights that I'm familiar with where I'll just go ahead and turn off my ignition if I roll up on a yellow turning red light, because I already know it's going to be a 2-3 minute wait even if there are no other cars in any direction.
 
#24 ·
Ford is working on an electric F150.

Electric isn't for everyone, but even with current technology (charge time and range) they ARE for over 90% of American drivers.
Those of us who go on 200+ mile drives even just a few times a month still need the rapid fueling of liquid fuel (gas/diesel).
We might see more and more people owning an EV for their normal use, and renting a IC (internal combustion) vehicle for their road trips, camping trips, etc. The cost of buying, maintaining, registering, insuring etc. a vehicle that you only use once a month at most would eclipse the cost of renting one for those times.

Most of us in the Van World arrived here because we DO go on long trips, or need to haul heavy loads, so our lack of interest in EV is obviously biased. But over 90% of American car owners drive less than 100 miles a day, and just use the vehicle for passenger and grocery transport. Because they are boring suburbanites.

Charge times are getting faster, and charging stations are becoming more frequent. Some restaurants and malls are offering free or reduced rate charging as a way to get people to stop (saw several on I-5 between SF and LA). Because they know they have you for 20-60 minutes, and you'll probably buy something. Gas stations and truck stops are adding charging stations. Electric is just more practical as a way to power a vehicle, especially for performance, and we already HAVE the infrastructure in place (electric lines). When was the last time you stopped at a gas station that didn't have electricity, hmm?
 
#25 ·
Ford is working on an electric F150.

Gas stations and truck stops are adding charging stations. Electric is just more practical as a way to power a vehicle, especially for performance, and we already HAVE the infrastructure in place (electric lines). When was the last time you stopped at a gas station that didn't have electricity, hmm?
Well, I've yet to see a charge station in South Texas...which is 500 miles from anywhere. It's not unusual for me to make 600-800 miles a day while on a road trip.
 
#30 ·
I am puzzled that so many are afraid of Start-Stop. I am on my third hybrid, the current one being a Ford Cmax Energi plug-in. I have over 300,000 miles with "start-stop". Never even know it is happening.

Of course, my opinion is, is this really the best Ford can do for a Transit in the U.S.? As I understand it, start-stop technolgy only costs a manufaturer a few hundred bucks to add to a vehicle. Pretty minimal and not very "green" in the grand scheme of things.

Whenever I drive a old school vehicle where the motor runs all the time even when you have your foot off the gas or stopped at a red light, I think how totally ridiculous it is to me wasting fuel, engine wear, etc., and spewing CO2 and other toxins while doing nothing. In fact, my CMax calculates the oil change interval on how much the engine actually runs, not some arbitrary average of say 6,000 miles or 10,000 miles. Lifetime on this vehicle I have run the engine on only 44% of the miles I have driven.

So, I would prefer a Plug-In Transit.

My only advice is, I would be much more scared of driving a Transit on snowy roads with the stock tires than I would having Start-Stop technology (which has been around for about 12 years if I recall).

Bill G.
A Transit probably delayed until I retire in a few years.
 
#31 ·
You can't green-shame people into polluting less. Most don't care or don't know, and a certain number of sociopathic misanthropes will actually rebel and do something like "burning coal" or "ICEing" a charging station in response.

But you CAN appeal to people's pocketbooks, and that's VERY effective. John Doe could care less that he's emitting a bunch of pollution needlessly as he idles at a red light, but tell him that over the course of a year he could save $100+ by having a start-stop system and all of a sudden he's interested. I don't know that actual savings, but even a $100 can motivate people.
 
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