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Anyone crimp AND SOLDER their battery ring terminals.

12K views 32 replies 20 participants last post by  Checkswrecks 
#1 ·
The battery cables on my boat were crimped and then soldered. Seems to be a good thing to do as contact area would be increased.

Wondering if anyone has done this. I’m about to start making cables as you might guess. I’ll have upwards of 125A running in a few cables as I have a rooftop AC and tankless hot water.
 
#8 ·
A proper cable crimp will compress the strands inside into a solid mass with no air spaces. Best practice is to get a decent hydraulic crimp tool. Then crimp on a lug and saw it in half to inspect it. It should look like as shown below. If it does then no need to solder. Solder has a tendency to wick into the cable and make it stiff. It will also melt the insulation.

All the best,
Hein
DIYvan
541 490 5098

 
#11 · (Edited)
#9 ·
The fancy crimper is best, but if you dont want to buy or borrow one I just crimp with big pliers and solder then heatshink over the top. If you do it right this will work just fine. Soldering can be a bit of an art form, I find that flux and the proper temperature are key. Big guage wires like this are a little tricky, but I heat it up quickly with a torch and then usually get the last little bit of heat with an iron to control it better.
 
#13 ·
Bought mine from local Interstate battery store. No need for a crimper or to learn how to use it. No leftover cable lengths.

Was easy to get what I needed. Used cotton rope cut to the correct length for the eyelet to eyelet length. On each end of the rope I added a tag that stated the eyelet hole diameter required and if a straight or 90 degree was required. A tag added to the center of the rope stated cable size and color.

Just took the pile of ropes to the store and they made the cables. Did this procedure two times. First for the cables for the house battery installation and the second time for the cables for the vehicle powered inverter. Cost each time was about $100 for each set.
 
#16 ·
Copper oxides over time. Bare copper wires in crimps will oxide also. Maybe not next year, but 5-10 years later depending on air+moisture exposure and copper purity. Ask any long-term Ducati or Aprilia moto owner how many wiring repairs they have made. Bare-copper wires in plated lugs.

Surface of bare copper wires in plated lugs oxide, become high-resistance, and then heat up & melt plastic connector housings. 3-phase alternator to regulator.



Existing bare-copper crimps are easily & permanently-repaired with a little solder.


For Real(tm) marine-grade wire (tinned copper strands) + tinned copper lugs, an excellent crimp is all that's necessary. No bare-copper interfaces to oxide. :)

For marine-grade wire + bare-copper lugs, OR
bare-copper wire + tinned lugs, OR
Bare-copper wire + bare-copper lugs ...

Crimp & then solder.

Do learn how to solder first, if not skilled. Practice as necessary. And always use an electronics-grade solder with rosin-flux core.

Good luck on your van wiring! :)

Catfish ...
 
#17 · (Edited)
Catfish,

The type of crimp being discussed is considered a "cold weld" and there is no air left in the crimp. Very difficult for "oxidation" to occur where oxygen cannot go.

The types of crimp you are showing examples of can indeed be damaged by oxidation, but this is comparing apples and oranges.

Here's an overview of the processes and an explanation of why cold weld crimping has displaced soldered connections in manufacturing processes.

https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-of-crimped-connections/
 
#26 ·
Catfish,
...
The type of crimp being discussed is considered a "cold weld" and there is no air left in the crimp. Very difficult for "oxidation" to occur where oxygen cannot go.

The types of crimp you are showing examples of can indeed be damaged by oxidation, but this is comparing apples and oranges.

Here's an overview of the processes and an explanation of why cold weld crimping has displaced soldered connections in manufacturing processes.

https://hackaday.com/2017/02/09/good-in-a-pinch-the-physics-of-crimped-connections/

Real cold welding works. I agree.

Their crimp-slice photo shows "minimal voids" in their own words. That's a very-poor example of a "cold-welded" crimp. Not enough pressure applied to actual cold weld. I can assure you air & water vapor is getting into those visible voids. Eventually _that_ crimp will fail from wire oxidation inside the crimp. If wire is not tinned (marine). The waterproof heat-shrinks that even Ford recommends will allow air/water in after the plastic dries out in 5-10 years.

My experiences include long-term use of big-ass 750 MCM welding cables with cold-welded copper lugs. 2 sets of 24 ea. to flow 10kA dc to a superconducting-magnet experiment. They didn't fail after 10 years, but become resistant enough for current flow to heat the wire in lugs above insulation smoldering temp. OOPS! We used Greenlee 6-ton hydraulic crimpers. Bare-copper crimps were good for 8-9 years.

The other pertinent issue around here is the DIYers. Do you think they have the correct tool+lugs+wire, and know how to use 'em? Soldering can fix their poor or old crimps. Permanently if done correctly.

So, maybe more like oranges & mandarins? ;-)

Just different experiences & opinions. I'm going all marine in my wiring & lugs for longevity. And I know where to borrow proper $crimpers$ :)


Catfish ...
 
#18 ·
Thanks for the feedback gang. FWIW, I am using ancor marine ring terminals and ancor marine wire (tinned copper, fine strands). I also have the ancor crimper that crimps up to 1/0. The bare copper wire/crimps that were pictured above would work as well, and are a lot cheaper. Marine-grade stuff will have zero corrosion issues though, esp if assembled with dielectric grease.

I have soldered (after crimping) anchor battery ring terms to ancor wire. If you are careful w/ the heat (propane torch), there is little deformation of the insulation, esp if the insulation is 1/4" or so away from the terminal's sleeve. And shrink tubing covers that anyway. The solder does wick into the wire headed away from the terminal causing it to stiffen.

Think I'm going to just crimp everything, but not heat the shrink tubing till after I hook up & test. If the V drops are significant I can go back and solder the needed points and then heat the shrink tubing. Extra work but no extra (100) steps is too much bother for the super anal among us.
 
#19 · (Edited)
The solder does wick into the wire headed away from the terminal causing it to stiffen.
Which makes it a point where vibration and other stresses in a vehicle could lead to strands breaking at that point in the wire that otherwise would have remained flexible. Particularly in fine wire cables like you are using.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I purchased that yellow hydraulic crimper as well (in one of the photos), very good item to have in my build as I made all my cables and saved quite a bit of money in doing so. Some of my cable lengths were very short and with a heavy gauge cable you need to be able to crimp the connector at just the right angle, you can't twist heavy cable very much at all in short lengths. I also use a copper paste (can't remember name) applied to the ends of the cable before crimping, it's supposed to aid in connectivity.


Found the copper paste:
KOPR-SHIELD
Thomas & Betts CK CP8TB COMPOUND
Conductive and Corrosion resistant compound
 
#25 ·
Just be aware that having the right tool and experience don't always make for a good crimp. I buy my cables and connectors from a automotive electrical supply distributor in Cincinnati, in business since 1954 that has everything you could ever need in stock. I had them install some of my first connectors on 1/0 cable, with a bench mounted crimper with a 4' handle which looked great until the connector came off in my hand. What a surprise!
 
#32 · (Edited)
f I could find my solder I would tell you what I use, but I'm guessing it's this.

And assuming that Radio Shack knows anything about soldering electronics and that it's a best seller for a reason, it looks like you want a 60/40 mix at a .032" diameter with a rosin core. I don't use any other flux than the rosin that is in the core of the Radio Shack solder and it works great. How to Discharge a Capacitor?
I use a cheap Radio Shack "pencil" soldering iron (I think 40 watts, can't find it) and it works perfectly fine. I just have to wait 5-10 minutes before I can start soldering.
 
#33 ·
...
I use a cheap Radio Shack "pencil" soldering iron (I think 40 watt, can't find it) and it works perfectly fine. I just have to wait 5-10 minutes before I can start soldering.
Ummm - that's a hard no unless you are talking general wiring, which this thread is not about.

Typical 1/0 battery cable or even 2 AWG in a lug would laugh at a 40W or 100W pencil/gun.
 
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