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Designing around side-curtain airbag in 2017 Transit Van

42K views 54 replies 30 participants last post by  Tijoe 
#1 ·
Wondering how conversions in the 2017 vans are dealing with the Safety Canopy side-curtain airbags in their designs since they are now standard? We are about to order a 2017 High roof cargo van for conversion. My plan was to do upper cabinets along the length of the van, mounted above the airbags so as to not interfere. I've since seen pictures of the interior and it looks like the airbags are mounted pretty high which would make for very shallow cabinets if mounted above (also in the van I believe the side curtain airbags are only along the driver side). Only way I see to order without, excluding ordering the RV prep package which I don't want, is if you have 10,360 GVWR only, and get the 2 way manual seats, neither of which I am getting. Don't know that I want to disconnect the airbags, but also don't want to give up cabinet space along one side. Wondering if people are choosing to work around them by disconnecting or choosing to incorporate the airbags in their designs? Thanks.
 
#4 ·
Thanks richards. I had seen Rascorp's original post about removing (something I knew I didn't want to take on), but had somehow missed Wooded7's post asking about deactivating the rear airbags without affecting the rest of the airbag system. Looks like the only suggestions he got were Rascorp's removal info or a suggestion to use airbag simulators (which I'd be nervous about using as a permanent solution). So with that thread being a year old, it doesn't seem like anyone has found a simple way to just inactivate them. Without there being more options for ordering without, I guess I'm back to the drawing board and will find a way to incorporate them into my design while losing the least amount of storage space. If anyone has done such a design/build I'd love to know how you decided to work around them. Thanks!
 
#5 ·
DrJean, so in the van the side curtain airbags don't go the length of the van as they do in the wagon? Having them run the length of a wagon used to transport passengers makes sense vs. them running the length of a cargo van, but the only information I was finding on the safety canopy side-curtain airbags was that they appeared to run the whole length (couldn't find info specific to van vs. wagon). And if this is the case, to confirm, if set off would they just affect the area of the passenger and drivers location in the cockpit, thus having cabinets along the top behind pillar B not be affected? If they don't run the length of the cargo van then that is good news!
 
#6 ·
This leads me to also ask a question (embarrassingly) about what is then behind the black plastic strip that runs along the length of the van on the driver's side? I had assumed it was related to the side-curtain airbags but if they don't run the length then I'm curious as to exactly what it is. I'm sure wiring, but if anyone can tell me to what exactly that would be greatly appreciated. I trust asking you all versus the dealer for an educated answer.
 
#9 ·
There's really no space lost imo from the airbags at that column. You can install over the slider/side doors if you're not too tall (otherwise I think you'd be ducking each entry time.)

The long rectangular plastic runner contains the wiring for the tail lights, and in my case the 12v outlet in the rear and I suspect also drops down the corner to the the tow light plugin. I think I still have maybe 8-10 " of space "above" it prior to completed ceiling build....
 
#10 ·
Thanks everyone for the information! So relieved. I love that I can come on here and find answers I can't find (at least easily) in Ford's own information. Really appreciate the help and I'm sure I'll be asking for more once we start work. We go order ours today!

CrewVanMan, to answer your question, I was confused. I saw that the side-canopy airbags were standard in 2017, but all the photos I was finding showed them going the length of the van - but now I know that was obviously only the case for the wagon and not the cargo van. In my moment of panic a day before ordering I put out my question to the forum and I'm so glad I did because now I know I was mistaken.
 
#11 ·
Side curtain Air bags

I have a 2016 tall roof with full air bags - it's a pass van XLT . This was my third van conversion, and the first without side mounted cabinets. I completely removed my headliner to add additional sound and thermal insulation. So I know - The air bags run the Entire length from front doors to the rear, just below the AC vents/ducts. I considered removing them, and installing the bypass to prevent the IP warning. But I designed around it instead. After 20k miles on the road and up to 35 nights - my design has proven out.

You should know the ceiling is designed o fold down and in when the bags deploy. To put anything above or below the AB will be problematic. :eek:
 
#16 ·
I have a 2016 tall roof with full air bags - it's a pass van XLT . This was my third van conversion, and the first without side mounted cabinets. I completely removed my headliner to add additional sound and thermal insulation. So I know - The air bags run the Entire length from front doors to the rear....
*** I'll add one thing. If you want to keep your airbags in place, that's fine. You can disconnect them from the system (electronically) and put airbag simulators in place. They will be disabled and you won't get a fault code. That way, you aren't removing them from the van, and they are easy to hook back up again. It's just that they do take up substantial room that could be used for a dedicated space. - - - - -



The air bags are only in the passenger wagons. NO NEED to do anything else if you've got the cargo version. If you have a Wagon and want to create more space up top, you'll be best served to watch these videos.

http://www.airbagsystems.com (source for the Sims. $129. shipped)

(how to disconnect airbag clip)

(info. on airbag sims)
(good info you WILL need)

(More good info you WILL need to get the whole airbag out - Doug is on this forum EL34XYZ - great videos & good guy)

It's BEST to remove the positive lead on the battery before removal - I've been told it's not necessary, just DON'T turn on the ignition. I wouldn't take any chances.
 
#13 ·
We just bought a 2017 high roof passenger van with side airbag curtains the full length. Now that the seats are gone, can you tell me more about the device to disable them? Because we're not carrying passengers I would hate for the curtains to deploy and send splinters of wood panel or other material into the space where my dog is harnessed. What are the risks to the front driver and passenger airbags if I remove the back curtains? Thanks for the help.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I tried many times to connect with this guy at ... http://airbagsystems.com/index.html to purchase the simulators. He didn't return phone calls or respond to emails. Tried to find a local Canadian supplier and no luck either. So I decided to keep the side airbags and work around them. You lose 3 inches so I built smaller depth cabinets. It required modifying some Lowe's L brackets and bolting them in to the pillars and then bolting in the "floating wall" wood that the cabinets will be screwed into. I just finished painting my built in cabinets and have not installed them yet. Will post later on progress but wanted to share my side airbag "work around" for those doing passenger van modifications. The side impact bags deploy down in a crash - so hopefully this doesn't interfere with anyone's safety. Considering it's just 2 of us travelling and in the front seats, I'm taking the chance.
 

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#19 ·
I completely removed the curtain airbags on my 2016 350 XLT passenger van. The ran completely from back to front, which means when you remove them by the passenger and driver will no longer have curtain airbags. See my YouTube video below. I removed them because I couldn't stand the though if them going off and shattering a bunch of stuff throughout my van (shards of wood, metal, utensils, etc). Obviously I'm no longer protected by them either, but they were going to interfere with my build anyway so I just removed them. My YouTube video below mentions custom airbags, ignore that. The company I was talking to was referring to custom suspension air bags, not safety.

No one will remove these air bags or disable them for you. It's too much of a liability. Pretty easy to do it yourself and install the simulators. Note that if you hook up anything to your house battery after installing the simulators you will need to adjust the ohm resistance on your sims.

https://youtu.be/KZETbS18isA

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#23 ·
hi everyone. Thanks for all the helpful info above. I've got a 15 passenger and would LOVE to have the ABs removed or at least have a better work-around with them. I never thought about that piece of this rebuild when I bought my van. All the windows were a big compromise for price and I'd hate to lose all the upper space. Right now, I'm collecting as much info as I can to make a decision about how to move forward.

Is there any way to change the airbag or secure it so it stays active for the front seats but not the back of the van? Cutting and sewing or installing a smaller one? Any company to do this? The thing goes the whole length on both sides.

Also, if you kept the ABs in place, what was a cool solution to covering them without putting the full headliners back on? There's SO much space behind those things. I'm thinking that I might create some hanging storage units that I can hook to the side ceiling when I'm stopped and take them down when I'm mobile... so I don't have wood/metal/etc shattering around the vehicle if the AB are activated.

thanks for letting me ask some questions. Since so many of you are way ahead of me on this situation, I'd love to hear updates and get some healthy and doable solutions.
TIA!
Shanti
 
#29 ·
I would like to see your design too. I hope you calculated in the mass of the fold down ceiling panels. I hope you realize the forces involved when the air curtains are deployed.
1. Side impact airbags deploy approximately 3 times faster than the frontal airbags at .12 to .25 milliseconds.
2. The leading edge speed of airbags during deployment may approach speeds of approximately 495 mph.

If your "fold down" ceiling has more mass than the OEM headliners, and/or the retainers/fasteners create any significant resistance, you may have created a problem. .12 to .25 millseconds is a very quick deployment time. (almost instantanious) 3000psi released from the canisters provides a huge expansive force. Hope you calculated the forces involved, and are using light weight materials that wont cause a problem as they are blown down and into the passenger area.

LOL! After 20k miles on the road and up to 35 nights - my design has proven out.
How would it be proven out unless the air curtains actually were deployed and tested? (That's an expensive test)
It appears to me that since you somehow didn't accidently cause them to go off, your design has proven out.

I have spent many hours to date researching how the air curtains deploy.
In the front upper console design I am working on, I am taking great care to create an air curtain covering that has minimal mass and a safe deployment path. If my covering is blown down and/or off it wont hit the driver's or passenger's head and lead to additional injury.

One other consideration I am looking into is what happens during a rollover if one uses a heavier material like wood, or paneling that is securely fastened to the ribs of the roof. (Versus OEM headliner.) During a roll over when the van first crashes onto its side, will the mass of the ceiling get smashed down onto the air curtains, causing them not to deploy correctly.

My perspective to date, is that it is probably safer to remove the air curtains if you plan on installing a ceiling and wall panels with more mass than the original headliners.
 
#31 ·
OMG! If they really aren't removing the airbags, I would hate to see what happens if there is a side impact and the air curtains deploy! If this was my company I would be really concerned about liability issues, and unless I actually tested air curtain deployment in one of their upfitted vans, I would be very concerned. If I had done the testing, then I would have the results available.



I posted this link in another thread, but everyone should take a look at how the airbags deploy. Look at what they did in the front area of the cab where they put in an offset that looks like it will impede the deployment of the air curtain for the driver. I love the quality of Van DOit's work and their look, but they must not have any automotive engineers working in the company.

I think that in the "Liv model" they might get away with air bag deployment, but with lower cabinets in place where is the bottom half of the air curtain supposed to go? (Does it matter if it is forced to stop on the cabinet tops?)

In their "Go model" I really hope that they remove the air curtains.

Perhaps they figure no one will be in the back of the van if it takes a side impact, and that the damage when the van is hit where and how the airbags deploy wouldn't matter anyways. But I am very concerned about the off-set 8020 they put in behind the driver's seat. (First pic) Would this impede the driver's door airbag from protecting the driver?


Fixture Gas Engineering Machine Metal
Clothing Workwear Gesture Motor vehicle Engineering
 
#32 ·
Thanks for posting that video. I had seen it before but then couldn't find it again.

I agree with all your concerns and I have been thinking about this a lot and looking at airbag zones in the BEMM, etc. (Wish I could get my hands on CAD for the airbag zones)
The video really gives a good overview what to watch out for.

I have a retractable bed platform at mid window height rear of the airbags - so when we're mobile it's all stowed rear of the 5th row area.
I have been contemplating a section for the airbag to dive behind my lower cabinets so that the airbag doesn't bottom of on top of a cabinet.
Then when stationary I'll come up with some kind of cover or lid so that we don't drop junk in there. Haven't fully figured it out yet.

On the driver's side I just built something absolutely in the way of the airbag (need to rework it)!! It's just a concept to support the bed. Also here, maybe I can design it hollowed out so that the airbag has a place to go and when stationery we'll use that space...

If I ever figure it out completely I'll post some pictures
 
#33 ·
@tiredder it sounds like you've built a platform similar to what I'm working on. Retractable bed platform away from the sides. My plan for the cabinets was to make them slideable on the floor, not sure yet if it will be with 80/20 and linear bearings or some other rolling mechanism. We'd slide them a foot in when driving and then back out when in camping mode.

I'd love to see a shot of what you have so far. I'm working out the materials needed for my platform and should be ordering this weekend. I haven't decided on the retractable bed mechanism yet. I thought about hinges, removeable sections or braces at the head / feet that slide out and are self supporting. I'm also considering reinforcing the couple holders and then using feet to land in those spots to support the head / feet. We'll see what wins out :)

One things that makes me less worried about how far away from the window they need to be is that the shoulder seat belts are pretty close to the wall, which seems to me that those bags shoot downward into the gap pretty well. I'm not going to chance it though and give it plenty of room.
 
#34 ·
@tiredder

I'd love to see a shot of what you have so far. I'm working out the materials needed for my platform and should be ordering this weekend. I haven't decided on the retractable bed mechanism yet. I thought about hinges, removeable sections or braces at the head / feet that slide out and are self supporting. I'm also considering reinforcing the couple holders and then using feet to land in those spots to support the head / feet. We'll see what wins out :)
I don't have a good pic showing my vision yet. I'm still building with cheap wood so far.
I need to build it, try it in order to visualize what works and what doesn't.
I'm in my third rebuilt, hoping to get it right this time.
Then the 4th rebuild will be with high quality materials, hopefully 8020.
Hoping that an Al build will add a layer of crash safety as well...
 
#40 ·
For my 2017 highroof passenger van conversion I wanted to retain the rear A/C system, so I moved the original ducts overhead. It took a bit of trial and error with various flexible duct material to realize the original Ford ducts are the best option while still allowing over 6 feet of floor to ceiling height. And dropping the wiring loom a couple of inches so it’s just above the airbags leaves space for shelves. Don’t mind the messy wiring - it’s work in progress.

150781
 
#41 ·
For my 2017 highroof passenger van conversion I wanted to retain the rear A/C system, so I moved the original ducts overhead. It took a bit of trial and error with various flexible duct material to realize the original Ford ducts are the best option while still allowing over 6 feet of floor to ceiling height. And dropping the wiring loom a couple of inches so it’s just above the airbags leaves space for shelves. Don’t mind the messy wiring - it’s work in progress.
Love this, do you have more pictures or info what you used and how you routed the ducts? Very curious
 
#43 ·
@Ajn63 thanks for sharing so much detail. This is a great idea. I was contemplating what to do with those ducts and at first thought I'll just do one big dump zone in the back but I like this solution much better.

Have you measured roughly how much lower you ceiling is now vs original headliner?
Based on the rear door latch strikers it looks like not much of any at all?

And now there's room for cabinets right above the airbags.

I see you also kept 3 rows of seats. That's the same set up i have, which is why I like the idea of making the side curtain airbags.
 
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