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Heartbreak - Ford Can't Build AC?

22K views 31 replies 19 participants last post by  bolesjb 
#1 ·
My love affair with my Transit is about to be over for good it seems like. Evidently, as some of you have confirmed already on this forum, Ford hasn't been very thoughtful about building a good AC capable of the full range of North American environments. And it looks like Phoenix and Southwest weather is going to make Transits unusable.

I'd say if you live in or frequent the SW, I'd stay away from the Transit. I hate saying this as I love everything else about it.

I've been driving around with mildly cool air blowing on me for a week now, in a white 15 passenger 3.5EB 350 XLT with rear air. This van sits outside most of the time, so it gets reasonably warm, but I religiously use sun shades, and have Llumar Air Blue 80 on the windshield (which I love).

But I can drive around for extended periods of time feeling like the air out of the vents is not cool enough to chill my skin, nor keep my back from sweating. Oftentimes, it feels like a swamp cooler rather than an AC.

Unfortunately, when using a contactless infrared thermometer, at the back of the duct, the temperature is mid to upper 40's with 99 outside temperatures (a tech's service note measured 46). My Ford service shop - Camelback Ford Lincoln - after discharging, recharging, and adding dye, says this is within spec. Keep in mind, 99 degrees here is a fairly moderate temperature. I hate to see what happens at 115. Unfortunately, 46 degrees at the back of the duct leaves the duct blades at about 60, and a lot warmer by the time it hits a body. In the interior of a 130 degree van, it takes a long time for 60 degree air to start to cool much.

This is obviously a passenger vehicle, and this would not be sufficient for the transport of passengers in the southwest.

The service shop, idiotically tells me that a separate rear AC would be a good solution. As if I should need a "solution" to make a vehicle designed to carry 15 people sufficiently functional for those 15 people to be carried. I see a number of forum members thinsulating their vans. But for a white van? Once again, how could a van made to carry people not be comfortable for carrying people? I think I'm starting to understand why so many of these passenger vans are coming out of fleet service after 1 year.

In some good fortune, I have an additional Transit 3.7 12 passenger in our fleet (ironically, I'm buying 6 to 7 of these in the next 18 months, and I think Ford has lost my business). I'm looking forward to also comparing that van, as it has recently had both an expansion valve and condenser replaced.

I've seen some others on this forum fight relatively complex issues - a bad batch of evaporators, a faulty rear temp sensor - and I've already had an AC expansion valve fail on the other van. But this looks like just miserable design to me, and it looks like the last organization I'd want to be repeatedly engaging with about AC issues.

Please excuse some ranting here, but I offer this as warning. Advice is welcome as well. I have really been looking forward to one of these as my family wagon. Any advice on dealing with a resistant service shop? Does anyone, from anywhere, have a definitive specification on the AC in these vans and what air temperatures and differentials they should be putting out? Is anyone happily driving these through Desert summers?
 
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#4 ·
I'm in Central Florida where the strong sun makes surfaces way too hot to touch, and a parked car reaches over 130 degrees inside quickly.
Even when it is cold outside in the winter, vehicle interiors heat up substantially.

When we first got our 12 passenger the A/C seemed anemic in cooling so I had the dealer check it out.
They topped off the Freon and it has been fine since and cools down the very large space in a reasonable amount of time even after being parked in the sun for hours. After initial cool-down we typically run the rear air fan on only 1 or 2 in 90+ temps.

I do wish the blower motor was quieter, though.
 
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#5 ·
first and foremost the transit was designed to be a contractors van, the passenger van package was just an afterthought. i have a bulkhead in mine and at present my cab area is uninsulated, i drive around all summer long in mississippi's heat and humidity with the AC set at the lowest setting once the cab cools down when i first start driving, the front AC does what it was designed to do: cool the cab!
for over a year i had a part time job repairing airport shuttle buses based on the ford econoline chassis, all of these shuttles had aftermarket AC packages installed, (thermoking or carrier) even the smallest 15 passenger shuttles. none of these shuttle were insulated except for the ones built for northern climates, the AC was very cold in all of them when everything was in good repair. this might be something to think about if you haul passengers in hot areas of the country, here is a picture of the smallest thermoking installed in a ford transit, it does not use ducts which just waste cold air in unisulated vans, it blows AC at head level where it is most noticeable by passengers.
 

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#6 ·
it does not use ducts which just waste cold air in uninsulated vans, it blows AC at head level where it is most noticeable by passengers.
Good point, one of the biggest challenges of the Transit rear AC is that it has to send the air through ducts mounted against the hot roof. I recall many old school passenger vans with ducts along the driver's side wall, not ideal for other reasons.

The rear AC units in a variety of van-based church buses I've driven over many decades have done fine just blowing over the passengers.
 
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#7 ·
I live in Sedona. The temperature is not as hot as down there in Phoenix. The tour busses that run from here to the Grand Canyon all have extra roof top a/c units on sprinters. Az shuttle that runs from the airport uses both ford and sprinter vans. all of them have roof top a/c units. seems like they understand the extra need and are willing to spend the $ (tax deduction) and go the extra mile to make the passangers comfy.
 
#8 ·
I have a cargo van with only the walls below the windows insulated. And I only have front AC. I've been in 100+ weather and haven't had a problem in the front or the bench seat behind the front seats; I haven't ventured into the extreme rear while driving (!) or had any feedback about temps back there because there is no seating. The dash vents are poorly designed, they SHUT if pointed to direct air to the back seat. Yes, parking with all the windows shut in 100+ temps does make it hot inside; I open the slider and back doors for about 30 seconds and the temp equalizes through convection. My dash AC blows cold, much colder than 60 degrees. I do not expect the van to be immediately comfortable after getting in, but I would expect it to be comfortable after 5 minutes of driving with AC on, and it is.

Michael and richards make good points. The Transit is a light commercial vehicle, designed to be a delivery van and not a passenger vehicle (just like the Sprinter). Adequate AC for hot climates and 12+ passengers is probably best handled by aftermarket AC. It's hard to make a limousine out of a plumber's van, but it can be done.
 
#17 ·
...The Transit is a light commercial vehicle, designed to be a delivery van and not a passenger vehicle (just like the Sprinter)...
Not sure the point of your comparison. Sprinter offers a roof mounted, high capacity rear AC unit as well as high performance heating options. Near as I can tell, rear AC unit it is now standard on passenger vans. Ford does not such options. Transit rear AC is a weak system tapped into the main HVAC as it was on E-Series.
 
#10 ·
My balls are still frozen, i live in Miami and i never have to put the blower switch past number 2, of course when you first get in after it has been sitting in the sun i may need 4, but as you start to get going iam frozen at the number 2 setting. I also have tinted all 3 windows !! Tint makes a HUGE!! Difference!!!! But i have never ever had a AC issue in any of my fords!! I have owned probably over 25 Fords in my lifetime. Best AC in the business!!


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#21 ·
How?



I really don't see how this is possible. I would love to see your temp ratings. I have a passenger with full tinted windows (including the front with AirBlue). The temps coming out of the A/C unit in the middle of the day are garbage. I have had it serviced and several things replaced, etc... No luck. At night or after a good rain it cools fine, but in the middle of the day 90+ temps it is crap. It blows at best 65 at the vents and typical is around 70. At those temps it never really cools down. My sprinter would cool down in under 5 minutes with the exact outdoor temps and no front window tint (sides/back were done). I like a lot about my 2017 Transit, but I am definitely going to be on the pre-order list for the 2019 Sprinter. The Transit A/C is just not enough for the vehicle. Too the point that it is unsafe for small children. I have to have a fan blowing on my baby if we go out during the day or he will overheat.
 
#11 ·
My 1st ordered van was supposed to have rear a/c and didn't come in with it... and my Mulligan, well, by the time I reordered I had decided I didn't want to lose the space for something that wasn't going to do what I wanted in more than one way, does not have it.

My van is about to become my home (or second home?) and when I drive in extremes I pull the clear vinyl shower curtain I hung so as the driver and dog-passenger area stays hot or cold as desired, rather than trying to do the whole van. I do have a mobile room ac/heat pump that will soon be attached to a genset under the van.... for when the engine isn't running. I have "insulated" Mulligan a bit already, soon to be added to and done-done inside build. It has already made a difference in noise and air ("insulating"). I've moved the clear vinyl curtain to just behind the cargo door so it's easier to get in and out. Van ac does fine with that--half a van.
 
#12 ·
another idea is a simple vent fan. when you are not in the vehicle turn it on so that the 115 heat does not get up to 130 or more. then when a/c is on close it. i had friends install a cpoupla (whole house roof vent) in the jungle of Nica. they are on solar and wind so no a/c. they crack a window and the escapes out the roof. might work to some extent here. starting at 110 is better than 130.
 
#14 ·
Better than cracking open a window is to have a hole in the floor with a open roof vent. Better natural draft without running the fan. Get cooler air from under the van and it will rise as it gets warmer and exhaust out the open roof vent. Van interior will stay closer to the outside air temperature.
 
#13 ·
Take the van to an independent reputable AC service shop and have them check it out.

Worst case is it costs you a little money out of pocket. If they can make it work better then you can argue with your local dealer about reimbursement. If they tell you they​ can't make it better then at least you'll know.

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#22 ·
Seems to be a huge variance in AC ability in Transits. My dash only system is fine in 100+ degree weather. Some people are having issues in just 80 degree weather, with front+rear AC.

You'd think Ford would look into this disparity.
 
#24 ·
To be fair, back in the day we had windows that opened ;) When I got my first vehicle with AC ('86) I rarely even ran it. Now that I'm older and more civilized, I can't imagine how I drove like that in Florida for so many years :eek:

Nowadays, in the Central Florida hot summer sun and high humidity we run our wagon's AC on 1 or 2 most of the time once it cools down which is usually after a few minutes. Rarely does it need to be kept on 3, much less wide open.
 
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#25 ·
Has anyone actually bothered taking their Transit to a shop that specializes in AC service?

Get an outside expert to check it out instead of just complaining about it.

Maybe it will cost you a couple hundred dollars to get it working right. But at least you will be able to stay cool. Then you can try to sue Ford for the repair cost.

Or you can just keep complaining. Up to you.

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#27 ·
AC - My 2.5 cents

Front - Works in 100F, I have to put in recirc for cooler air
Rear - Those darn vent are quite funky in design, you have to point then all the way down and then air vent from across you will get to you, they are inadequate in a hot car when you first start, after 5 mins on the hwy or driving, rear is ok but the amount of air blowing is still not adequate.
My solution is to add this to the little cig lighter power source , from what I have read, this is a low amp draw fan with good air flow and is quiet.
Fantastic Endless Breeze 12 V fan, h20 makes one too and is cheaper.

 
#28 ·
Clearly there are Transits that have cooling issues. But I also suspect that driving conditions make a difference? I too get "frosted out" by my van's AC; but the vast majority of my driving time is at 45 mph+. I have noticed that even my little 2013 Ford Escape puts the AC into a half-hearted mode when idling - I can see where sitting in traffic could make a huge vehicle loaded with heat-admitting windows, uncomfortable.

When we get Gracie to Florida, I'm going to have my nephew tint the upper half of the solarium-like front windshield and windows, to reflect heat.
 
#29 ·
Wagon rear vent systems seem to suck for most vans. My old T1N Sprinter had rear AC, and the vent ducts along the ceiling were laughable. I removed the ducting for more headroom and just had an opening in the rear where the duct used to attach, and the AC was at least 10x more effective! With the air traveling forward across the roof, it would collide with the air coming from the front and create ever changing currents that sent the cool air everywhere. Maybe people need to experiment with the duct system on the Transit. A single 6" port instead of those little vents might be the answer.
 
#31 ·
In vehicles, prior to maybe 1980-1990, using AC noticeably cut into your MPG. Now running AC in most cars is barely perceived at the gas pump. Better system design? Who knows. I'll bet running the fan on high causes more MPG loss than the AC compressor; the fan being a huge draw on the alternator.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Ah... I'm back. But still hot.

Hi All,

My apologies for being offline, spent a little time in Yellowstone towing 5,200 lbs or so, and I'll have to post a separate thread on that. Didn't expect this thread to stay alive very long in fact. Nice to see we're still discussing. I'm concluding the Transit lacks any consistent output across individual vans.

I can pretty confidently say after about 2,600 miles on that trip that this AC barely qualifies as an AC, but the good news is it appears to be deteriorating, maybe. I did a couple of easier hacks before departure - first I put a heat reflective film (Llumar Air 80) on the windshield (effective, don't know how I'd survive without it). Then I put a carpet dash cover on the dash. That too was pretty effective, as I think there's not much inside the dash, and sun coming through the windshield heats the whole thing up so much that the blower ducts stay hot for a good period of time. Then I bought one of those extremely stiff roll up custom-fit sun shields from Amazon for about $40. That thing is a huge pain in the but, but there is no better sunshield. I also put on a roof rack to shade the roof a bit. That works some in the rear, not in the front. One of the things I still want to do is tint the side windows. Another is to eventually thinsulate it. But the other mods, except for the tint, are easily transferrable if I decide I've had enough with the AC.

Pretty consistently on our trip, with these mods, AC was alright for front seat passengers up into low 90's outside temperatures. By the time we hit 102, it was pretty much a stream of uncomfortable air, irrespective of whether the blower was on 3 or 4. Between about 94 and 102, if you were driving into it, you could hold the cool, but if you started the van in the sun, you were going to stay tolerably warm. But it was livable for me (not so much the wife). Above 102, forget about it, we fought to maintain a comfortable temperature even at highway speeds. These are also all observations with recirculate on.

Now keep in mind, Ford says this is to spec, and that the temp out of the ducts blows cold enough. I frankly think it is inconsistently blowing. I've begun to conclude I've got a trashy evaporator with junk in it. But alternatively perhaps I have a slow leak. We'll know more next time I go to the shop. I have another 3.7 van that cools at least twice as well as this one, even in the heat, but had the expansion valve totally fail at 30k miles.

Engine temp and load didn't seem to much matter, it was all pretty consistent. Although at 104+ and 6% terrain, while I was towing, engine coolant would approach the turbo boost cutoff temp (around 244 as I recall). AC had a pretty big impact on engine temp, and would easily drop 8 degrees by shutting it off.

Yeah, in the hot temps, the passengers in back started complaining at about 105, and feeling nauseated in 110+ external temps. Hate to say it, but with the weather patterns changing, if you're not designing to a 120 outside temperature range, you're probably not doing a good job. But I'd expect 104 degrees to be plenty workable. Maybe Ford just doesn't have summer temps on their radar.

Do I keep this sucker? I think the shop's ability to repair will tell. But I'll get that done at the same time I'm buying non-turbo van #3 . They may be more motivated at that moment. Yeah, I'll buy that next van, but only if you replace my evaporator and expansion valve.
 
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