Alternator output - Page 3 - Ford Transit USA Forum
 6Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 03:56:PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Hi, I'm trying to figure out if I have a smart charging system. My vehicle is a 2016 Transit medium length, low roof and the 3.7 base - non-turbo gas engine. I drove around and the charging voltage is nearly constant 14.5 or so volts. From what I read a smart charging system would use low voltage sometimes, say 12.5, in order to create a reserve in the battery to absorb energy on deceleration. I concluded that this model, at least, does not have smart charging. What evidence do you have that your Transit does have it? Thanks.
Mike Campervan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:18:PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
Hi, I'm trying to figure out if I have a smart charging system. My vehicle is a 2016 Transit medium length, low roof and the 3.7 base - non-turbo gas engine. I drove around and the charging voltage is nearly constant 14.5 or so volts. From what I read a smart charging system would use low voltage sometimes, say 12.5, in order to create a reserve in the battery to absorb energy on deceleration. I concluded that this model, at least, does not have smart charging. What evidence do you have that your Transit does have it? Thanks.
It does have a version of smart charging and the current output will vary even though the voltage remains the same. I can feel a slight bog when my B-B charger kicks on. It does not have regenerative brakes like the Euro version does.

2016 T250, MR, LWB, 3.5L EB, 3.73 LS, Sync, Tow Package.
sschefer is online now  
post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:34:PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Actually, the voltage varies according to the battery temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsky View Post
I figure the highest one is closest to actual alternator voltage- the CM one probably has some wiring losses.
BTW the voltage varies according to intake air temperature also, the PCM controls it- colder= higher voltage.
A minor correction; it is not inlet air temperature. There is a battery temperature sensor on the positive terminal of the battery. This signal goes to the PCM and as you say the lower the temp the higher the charge voltage with the range being about 14.4 to 15.5.

I put a circuit in parallel to the battery temp sensor with a variable resistor that allows me to set the charge voltage to exactly what I want. I have a relay that allows me to revert to the stock setup when I not charging. I will use this as part of a LiFePO4 battery controller I am building up where I want a specific voltage; currently assuming 14.4 volts. I'm not ready to show that system yet, but the variable resister does work. Note, I put a fixed resistor on one lead so I would not ever accidentally go to zero amps and burn up the circuit.

I get different voltage measurements with every method I use including the TORQUE OBD voltage reading. I found this cheap voltage meter / interior temperature sensor from EBAY agrees with my two purpose built voltmeters; not sure why the OBD one if different. Search ebay for "2in1 Temperature Volt meter for Car Auto Truck SUV Accessories Cigarette lighter" to find it. I have no equity in this product but it works for me.
Mike Campervan is offline  
 
post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 04:44:PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschefer View Post
It does have a version of smart charging and the current output will vary even though the voltage remains the same. I can feel a slight bog when my B-B charger kicks on. It does not have regenerative brakes like the Euro version does.
Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to do more research to understand this. Have you seen any write-ups on this smart charging method on Ford or enthusiast sites? It seems to me if the resistance of the battery is fixed for a given state of charge the you can't change the current going into the battery without changing the voltage.

Several U.S. Ford's have the regen braking type smart charge and I am surprised that the Transit does not, so I have an open mind to better understand what they are doing.
Mike Campervan is offline  
post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 07:13:PM
Senior Member
 
Budsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budsky
BTW the voltage varies according to intake air temperature also, the PCM controls it- colder= higher voltage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
A minor correction; it is not inlet air temperature. There is a battery temperature sensor on the positive terminal of the battery. This signal goes to the PCM and as you say the lower the temp the higher the charge voltage with the range being about 14.4 to 15.5.

Well- that isn't want the Ford WorkShop Manual on DVD says- section 414-00 "The PCM uses a signal from the IAT sensor to adjust the charging voltage according to the battery temperature"
Maybe they made an error and meant a sensor on the battery- does seems odd they'd adjust voltage based on outside air temp when the batteries are INSIDE

"Beluga" 2015 350HD 3.2D, 3.73, EL, HR.
Budsky is offline  
post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 07:50:PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: mississippi
Posts: 1,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to do more research to understand this. Have you seen any write-ups on this smart charging method on Ford or enthusiast sites? It seems to me if the resistance of the battery is fixed for a given state of charge the you can't change the current going into the battery without changing the voltage.

Several U.S. Ford's have the regen braking type smart charge and I am surprised that the Transit does not, so I have an open mind to better understand what they are doing.
this SVE Bulletin describes an optional idle controller that all 2016s or newer transits already have minus some resisters and a switch or two, it controls battery charge for high power after market accessories, it may provide some insight into how all transit charging system actually operate. https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q-239.pdf

2016 transit cargo 250 MR, LWB, 3.5 eco, 3.31 limited slip
Michael Ophus is online now  
post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 10:35:PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
Thanks for your reply.

I'll have to do more research to understand this. Have you seen any write-ups on this smart charging method on Ford or enthusiast sites? It seems to me if the resistance of the battery is fixed for a given state of charge the you can't change the current going into the battery without changing the voltage.

Several U.S. Ford's have the regen braking type smart charge and I am surprised that the Transit does not, so I have an open mind to better understand what they are doing.

Voltage and current are inversely proportional. As the current rises the voltage will drop. When the smart system sees the voltage drop it will ask the alternator to produce more. Instead of a the alternator producing a constant output and then regulating that, with the smart system, the alternator only produces what the vehicle needs when it needs it. This reduces the load on the engine which in turn saves fuel.


If you have the single calcium lead acid battery then your PCM is set to that battery type and will bulk charge at 15.1v. Once the battery temp sensor tells the system that the bulk charge is complete it will move into conditioning mode and voltage will drop to 14.35v and when fully charged it will go into float and voltage will drop to 13.6. If you have the dual AGM batteries you PCM will be set the AGM charge profile which will be 14.1, 13.75 and 13.4. This is what Ford claims is their smart charging system.


The best way to deal with this is to not mess with it at all and just install a battery to battery charger. I have the Sterling Pro Charge B and I can set it up for just about any battery profile I want. It runs on 12v from the vehicles battery and then modifies the input as needed to produce an output and the correct charge profile that you've selected.


http://www.sterling-power-usa.com/Pr...lt-12volt.aspx

2016 T250, MR, LWB, 3.5L EB, 3.73 LS, Sync, Tow Package.
sschefer is online now  
post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 06:11:AM
Senior Member
 
Budsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,088
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
There is a battery temperature sensor on the positive terminal of the battery.
Are you sure it is a temp sensor? The WSM shows only a hall effect current sensor on the battery positive...and that is only on gas engines- the diesel does not have it.

Maybe Ford changed this for 2016 forward..my WSM is for 2015 since that is what I own.

"Beluga" 2015 350HD 3.2D, 3.73, EL, HR.

Last edited by Budsky; 01-09-2017 at 06:29:AM.
Budsky is offline  
post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 09:50:AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Occidental, Ca.
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1054 Post(s)
[QUOTE=sschefer;481282]

The best way to deal with this is to not mess with it at all and just install a battery to battery charger./QUOTE]

Another choice that provides the correct charge profile for your house battery is to use a vehicle 12 volt powered inverter. The 120 volt output from the inverter then powers your shore power 3 stage battery charger.

You also will have 120 volt power available for other purposes as you drive.

2015 high roof 148" WB 3.5 Ecoboost 3.31 LS rear cargo.
orton is online now  
post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 11:01:AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: mississippi
Posts: 1,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 296 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by orton View Post
The best way to deal with this is to not mess with it at all and just install a battery to battery charger./QUOTE]
Another choice that provides the correct charge profile for your house battery is to use a vehicle 12 volt powered inverter. The 120 volt output from the inverter then powers your shore power 3 stage battery charger.
You also will have 120 volt power available for other purposes as you drive.
that does not sound very efficient, in my case i would need a magnum dimensions ms2012 inverter which produces 120 volts at 16.7 amps to drive a second magnum dimensions ms2012 inverter/battery charger which uses 120 volts ac at 15 amps to run the battery charger!

(the first inverter would draw 250 amps DC from the battery/alternator to supply the 120 volts at 15 amps the second inverter/charger wound need to charge the batteries at 100 amps DC.)

So it would be using 250 amps DC to produce 100 amps DC!

A battery to battery charger is far more efficient!

2016 transit cargo 250 MR, LWB, 3.5 eco, 3.31 limited slip
Michael Ophus is online now  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



  Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone installed a 2nd alternator on a Transit yet? jrobe Camper Vans and Conversions 1 12-03-2016 11:39:PM
Air Conditioner output temp not adaquate mdrambler Ford Transit Troubleshooting 38 09-26-2016 07:01:PM
Alternator output? rene12341 Ford Transit General Discussion 17 08-31-2016 10:44:PM
what if you only had a 150A alternator? foxharp Camper Vans and Conversions 6 11-01-2015 08:02:AM
HD alternator output graph. orton Ford Transit General Discussion 3 01-06-2015 01:43:PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off