Engine Braking - Page 3 - Ford Transit USA Forum
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-11-2016, 06:01:PM
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Originally Posted by orton View Post
Pointer shows what gear you are in. Both in automatic and manual.

In automatic when you first push the down shift button nothing changes. Second button push puts you in 5th then each button push moves you to a lower gear (if you are not going to fast for that gear).

Going back up each button push moves you up a gear. If you want to go back to fully automatic just holding the button down will get you back to automatic without going through the gears.
That's correct. It's useful if you want to keep it from shifting into 6 gear and lugging while running around town.
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-11-2016, 06:04:PM
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Originally Posted by orton View Post
If you want to go back to fully automatic just holding the button down will get you back to automatic without going through the gears.
Thanks never thought of trying that. Great tip!

2016 250 MR Q4x4 cargo 148wb Ecoboost 3.31 limited slip
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-19-2016, 03:35:PM
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Don't have my Transit yet so trying to summarize what has been said:

In a standard Transit (no T/H mode) in D going down a hill the torque converter will not look up, you will coast. If you manually shift to 5 or 4 or any other gear the converter will lock up and you will have engine braking going down the hill. Also, just driving, in D if you get of the gas you coast. In any manually selected gear if you get of the gas you get engine braking.

If you have T/H mode and it is OFF the above is what happens. If you turn it on and you are in D going down a hill the converter is locked and you get engine braking in 6. If you touch the brakes is auto downshifts a gear and you get engine braking in 5, and so on down the gears. If you manually shift to 5 T/H is turned off and it acts as a standard Transit.

Also in D with T/H on shift points move to the torque peak rather than economy peak reducing the number of shifts.

Is this correct?
Ron
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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 05:30:AM
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I believe what you say is correct. I use the T/H when going down long hills and just tap the brake to get engine braking. With each tap of the brake it drops a gear. Maintains speed very well. I also use the manual shift for shorter hills and normally do not have to use the brake. I just watch the tach and shift down at 2000 rpm and engine will not go over 3000 on the down shift. I have the 3.31 LS rear so engine rpm is low for the speeds I travel. At 70, engine rpm is 1900. I have changed the tires to LT225/75R16 so have lowered the engine rpm for any speed. I am very happy with my engine, transmission and rear end selections. Lots of power, good fuel economy.
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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 01:39:PM
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If you are descending a long hill with relatively few turns, such that a constant vehicle speed is safe, then put the vehicle in vehicle speed control. All sorts of control actions are used to maintain the speed including: 1) lower the throttle position to a minimum level of airflow for combustion; 2) if vehicle speed is still too high retard the spark (ignition timing) to further reduce torque and speed; 3) if vehicle speed is still too high then disable fuel to cylinders one at a time from 6 to 0 (on a 6 cylinder) as required to maintain speed, 4) if vehicle speed is still too high downshift if doing so will not exceed the maximum safe engine speed. These actions will control speed on all but the steepest downgrades where friction brakes will then be required. The reason I qualified the use of speed control for relative straight roads is that speed control tap up/ tap down control is not a convenient or safe way to control speed entering a corner. If its a windy road use tow haul as described above.
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 04:06:PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Campervan View Post
If you are descending a long hill with relatively few turns, such that a constant vehicle speed is safe, then put the vehicle in vehicle speed control. All sorts of control actions are used to maintain the speed including: 1) lower the throttle position to a minimum level of airflow for combustion; 2) if vehicle speed is still too high retard the spark (ignition timing) to further reduce torque and speed; 3) if vehicle speed is still too high then disable fuel to cylinders one at a time from 6 to 0 (on a 6 cylinder) as required to maintain speed, 4) if vehicle speed is still too high downshift if doing so will not exceed the maximum safe engine speed. These actions will control speed on all but the steepest downgrades where friction brakes will then be required. The reason I qualified the use of speed control for relative straight roads is that speed control tap up/ tap down control is not a convenient or safe way to control speed entering a corner. If its a windy road use tow haul as described above.
I prefer just to use my brakes, even on longer downhill stretches. I like the person behind to know I'm braking. Also, transferring braking forces back through my entire drivetrain to the engine never struck me as a good idea over the life of a vehicle. My thinking is that brake pads are cheap disposables compared to long term wear on engine/drivetrain components.

My 2010 F150 still had the original brakes when I traded it in at 120,000 km. Much of that mileage was three 15,000 km return trips to Arizona pulling a 30' TT. Lots of long hills on that trip. I'm not sure the Transit brakes are as good as the F150, but I'm sure they can handle repeated braking on long hills.

On one memorable trip in the F150, while heading to N Carolina on a long winding downhill, my brake controller red lights indicated I was not connected to the trailer. I had no choice but to continue down the long, steep, narrow 2 lane without trailer brakes. I certainly used engine braking that day, but it was of little effect, and long sustained pedal pressure was needed to keep from rolling too fast on the winding downhill. When I finally managed to pull over after what seemed like forever, I expected smoking brakes and red disks. But it was not the case. There was heat for sure, but no ill effects or overheating had occurred. I was very impressed at that point in the capacity of the F150 stock brakes on such a long descent with a 5000 lb dead load at the hitch. The problem turned out to be a faulty 8 pin trailer plug on the brand new trailer. I could wiggle it in the Ford socket and the brake controller would flicker on and off, so would my electric brakes! I replaced the plug myself.

My point is, modern brakes such as on the Transit, are likely more robust than we give them credit, and engine braking may be a bit of a holdover from another era. 🤔

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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:19:AM
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You brake life of 120km is very good and may be better than most people experience.

I can't think of any reason using the Ford speed control or tow/haul would cause any excess wear in the engine or drive train. So we have options which is always good. But here you have friction braking that definitely causes wear and lots of heat, and engine braking that absorbs energy through engine friction under well oiled, well cooled conditions.

As an added bonus cylinder cutoff saves fuel, although for most people this will be a small amount. People who live in hilly areas the fuel cut method may add up to a measurable amount.

There is sort of common sense way to look at this. Why use fuel to generate torque from the engine only to add to the amount of energy that the brakes must absorb? Is it not better not to generate the torque to begin with?

To each his own...
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 11:34:AM
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I consider T/H as both a Tow/Haul mode and a Twisty/Hill mode. On a road that I should really be on a moto it is like "sport" mode in cars. Most of the places I go have twisty roads leading up to it and twisty roads often mean hilly roads.

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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 05:16:PM
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How much is it to rebuild the Transit transmission? I'm not going to find out by trying to force it to engine brake. Brakes are far, far cheaper. Maybe it's the mechanic in me that tells me that.

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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 05:53:PM
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The trans does not do the braking, the engine does. Turning the cylinders off and reving up the engine causes the friction of the engine to slow the vehicle down. The trans is transmitting torque under either scenario: 1) engine creating positive torque that is absorbed by the friction brakes; 2) the engine produces negative torque with little to no friction brakes. In the engine braking case 2 the torque through the trans is is actually less, and while all of this is in the weeds of transmission wear I'd say less torque is better for long life.

Where do you get the idea that using the trans in this mode causes excess wear?
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