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Fasteners??? - Using existing holes in structure

18K views 41 replies 20 participants last post by  NetDoc 
#1 ·
I am beginning to install some strut along the side edges of the ceiling T-350 HR EL 9500#.

Using the outermost, closest to the wall ceiling holes which do not allow me to get behind the sheet metal to hold a fastener with a wrench.

Finally got a system down to make it happen with 3/8-16 rod, stop nuts and washers but this only the first 10 and with so many more to come, Gotta be a better way...

After plugging away and coming up with something that works, I remember than some-where somebody talked about just this problem and solving it with inserts. But I tucked that nugget of info to far back in my memory to remember it. Just spent and hour doing search an read....

...haven't come up with the post yet...

Anybody have a sense what I am referring to? Maybe point me in the right direction. (thought it was Ortin but could locate anything even on his great site, other than the 80/20 discussion.
 
#2 ·
I bought a harbor freight tool which included a variety of insert sizes. It satisfied all my installation needs. Orton used a more substantial system with stronger split inserts.

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#7 ·
In my cargo, the threaded holes all over the walls are 6x1mm. You need a tap to clean the paint from the threads.
 
#10 ·
A few 8mm, like near the rear doors. All the ones above the windows are 6mm, as are many by the slider and right below the windows. For reference; the tiedowns are held on with 8mm bolts.
 
#16 ·
Hi,

I ordered M10-1.5 mm Ruv Nut tool plus steel Riv nuts from McMaster Carr. My medium roof 10 passenger 130" WB wagon has some OEM holes for extra shoulder harness mounts 39" above floor. I plan to bolt some Uni strut in vertical direction there. Also, about 7.25" above the floor near door that are double thickness sheet metal 14 mm holes. That is where I will install 10 mm Riv nuts.

TA
 
#17 ·
Another thumbs up for plusnuts. They differ in that they expand behind the hole versus a rivnut, which expands sideways, relying on a pressure fit. For thicker metals, rivnut work fine as long as they are installed correctly. For sheet metal, it's less reliable than a plusnut, especially in direct relation to sheet metal thickness.

The only way a plusnut fails is if it is literally ripped through the sheet metal, in which case it didn't really fail.
 
#18 ·
Not entirely correct. A rivnut doesn't expand sideways, it expands behind the hole, but all the way around the circumference, forming a ridge against the back of the hole. A plusnut also expands behind the hole by spreading out four wings, for lack of a better term. I used lots of rivnuts years ago when I was a youngun in the service. It would be interesting to see some specs on comparative pull through resistance, but I'm too lazy to do the search.
 
#20 ·
The only problem I have had is sometimes it does not deform equally so a bolt does not want to thread into the plusnut. That is solved with a tap.

Since they have a lot more surface contact with their 4 feet, they do not tend to spin.

One negative is they are longer than a nutsert. Sometimes their is not enough space behind the hole which prevents the plusnut from being fully inserted. You can start to insert it and as it get shorter you can seat the flange against the sheet metal.
 
#21 ·
OK, so satiable curtiosity compelled me to mill around the interweb. Here's a nice Youtube video of a rivnut expansion.

And there's a pullout chart here: http://www.cardinalcomponents.com/assets/rivnut_mechanical_properties.pdf

tl;dr A ¼-20 plusnut has about 2.5 times the pullout resistance of a rivnut in .030 steel. That's 1215 lbs vs 480 lbs. I hope never to have 480 lbs pulling on my nuts.:eek:
 
#23 ·
when it gets hard to turn, it turns easy in the compression cycle. a rivnut is made out of soft steel and over tightening it will probably just strip it out. i think orton said he used a tap to fix some of his that may have got too tight?
(i am an expert, i installed about 10 of them!)
 
#24 ·
Hi,

Grainger Supply also has the Marson pliers type Riv nut gun. This gun is great and you just swap in the proper size mandrel like on a regular rivet gun. It is very nice for Riv nuts 6-32, 8-32, 10-24 , 10-32,and 1/4" -20 steel and aluminum Riv nuts. The tool is about $75.
Packages of 25 to 50 Riv nuts of various sizes sold separately.'

For larger sizes I bought the manual, wrench type tool for $25. There are production grade heavy duty pliers type Riv nut guns for $200 that look like bolt cutters. These big boys can do 3/8", 10 mm etc.

TA
 
#28 ·
I picked up the Harbor Freight rivnut kit. It comes with four sizes of aluminum rivnuts. Thinking it was under $20.
Went ahead and ordered a hundred piece package of Steel rivnuts in quarter 20 off of eBay.
It was about $12 delivered. Those rivnuts have serrations on the face of the contact area and also at the base of the cylindrical portion. Makes me think that they grip better. The thread should be stronger than the aluminum nuts.
The tool that came from Harbor Freight works fine with the steel nuts so far. I've only done about 15 steel rivnuts.

Suitcase

Probably a good idea to practice on some scrap to get used to how the tool works.
 
#29 ·
Thanks! Two questions, I have limited hand strength (especially working over my head)--will I be able to do this or should I hire someone? And do you have to spin the tool to remove it after install, or is there a knob or chock or something to spin instead?
 
#30 ·
I have the same tool and have used it with the included aluminum rivnuts for years. The 1/4-20 ones require quite a bit of strength to set, but you could use pieces of pipe on the tool handles as cheaters. I imagine that steel rivnuts would require more pressure to set, too. I also ordered some but have not installed them with the tool yet. I am re-thinking the 1/4-20 in favor of 6x1mm because most of the other threaded holes in my van are 6x1mm.

There is a little knurled wheel that you twist to unthread the tool from the rivnut once set.
 
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#33 ·
okwhat I bought...threaded riveter set,,,,,,,,, threaded is stronger, right? It's for overhead pully attachments for my rising bed... Wood supports, and I don't plan on it holding any weight but the bed /bedding when it's raised. So for more threaded ones, I can buy them at box store as quarter 20s, right? :huh:
 
#35 ·
Yeah, I expected to be able to get more of the Harbor Freight rivnuts at Harbor Freight, but had to order them.
 
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