Ford Transit USA Forum banner

electrical design?

20K views 83 replies 16 participants last post by  orton 
#1 · (Edited)
So, just how is this laid out?

Are there single 12v 300w+ solar panels?

Anyways, these are the main components I'm thinking.

2000w inverter
12v fridge
Single Vmax 350AH battery (185 lbs!!!!!)
TV
Some LED lighting
Vent fan
4 cameras at all 4 sides. Turns on with a switch to save power?

Haven't decided on induction or LP for stove.
Possibly a tiny microwave would be awesome for popcorn and bacon....
Still mulling over internal on demand shower.
Maybe AC for when plugged in

2 or 3 110v outlets
2 or 3 12v outlets

I want to be able to charger the house battery while driving. And if I'm at a campground with power, I want to be able to plug in and run everything off that.

Is this do-able? Does it make sense? Suggestions or ideas?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
anything is possible here, if you through enough money at it, but your electrical system does not have to be expensive to serve smaller needs. there are many such systems described in detail here, just use the search box to find them, that or ask individual questions and manypeople here will be happy to try to help you with them!
here is some info about many things ford transit camper van related: http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/diys-modifications/35946-resources-modifications-conversions.html
 
#3 ·
We were in your shoes a year ago, wondering how to do this.
We designed and implemented our system a few months ago, it's doing great.

This is everything we learnt in the process (power consumption calculation, solar/alternator/shore, electrical diagram, etc):
http://faroutride.com/ford-transit-camper-van/conversion-planning/electrical-system/


It's just the basics, but hopefully it answer a few questions.

Cheers!
 
#5 ·
It's quite doable, assuming you find a panel that physically fits your layout.
Our design isn't all that different than what you describe.
560W solar
2KW inverter charger (MS2012)
Blue Sky MPPT
Norcold 7CF compressor fridge
2 4D AGM batteries in parallel (~400AH)
TV&blu-ray
LED lighting
Maxxair fan
LPG s2 burner hob, on demand hot water heater, and house heater.
700W microwave
A few AC, DC, and USB power sources

Only camera is the van's backup.

Here are a few link to some of our electrical install pages:
Note that the schematic is slightly out of date. We've added some more fusing.
http://anniebuild.blogspot.com/2015/07/installing-solar-panels-started.html
http://anniebuild.blogspot.com/2015/09/boy-agm-batteries-are-heavy.html
http://anniebuild.blogspot.com/2015/10/power-pointing-part-one.html
http://anniebuild.blogspot.com/2015/10/power-pointing-part-two.html
 
#14 ·
Here's how I'm understanding it. Hopefully, I can get corrections or input.
TransitFool, what did you use to draw your electrical diagram? I'm in the same position as you, ready to ask the forum for corrections and suggestions but need to come up with something that's easier to look at than my pencil and paper scribbles.
 
#7 · (Edited)
A few comments, but generally looks good to me:

I suggest some means of monitoring battery charge state, which will probably require a shunt.
You will also want some fusing in case of excess current in or out of your 350AH battery.
Can I assume the "isolator" is to allow car/house connecting and splitting?
Is the "Automatic transfer switch" part of a single unit (like the Magnum MS series units) or are you planning a separate charger and inverter?
If separate, AC breakers should be fed from the transfer switch, not the converter.

The lines to the battery are all I/O. Basically one line. The battery, solar controller output, isolator, and DC loads, and inverter input are all on the same wires. It's a bit misleading to show split battery input and output lines.

Stan
 
#8 ·
Where would the shunt/monitor go on my diagram?

The isolator is for whenever you're driving, it will charge the vehicle battery, and "house" battery. I think they are called something else.


This is what I was referring to as the switch.
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-...ywords=go+power+automatic+transfer+switch#Ask


And the converter, I have no clue yet.


*edit*
I just looked for the Go Power 2000w inverter I originally saw, but now cant find it. Must have been discontinued.
They got ones that looks humongous all in 1 setup now.
http://gpelectric.com/products/inverter-charger-ic-series



I thought the converter was where it split off to the plugs. Maybe I don't understand what the switch and converters fully are.

I liked the idea of keeping it all separate bc when one breaks, it'll be cheaper to replace I would think.

But if one device will simplify it all, well ok.



I'm not quite sure I understand the misleading portion either. The way I'm picturing it. You are running multiple lines to and from the batteries. No?
 
#11 · (Edited)
Typically, the shunt is in line with the house battery neg. Nothing but one side of the shunt is connected to the battery. The other side is your house common. The monitor reads the small voltage drop across the shunt, and calculates how much current has gone in and out of the battery. That way, it can calculate and display the battery's charged state.

We're on the same page about the isolator. I use a voltage sensitive relay, which automatically connects and disconnects the two systems as appropriate.
Older campers used some blocking diodes.
Some people use one of several sophisticated battery to battery systems which optimize the house charging profile when using the car alternator to do the charging.

My system uses a combined charger/inverter. It also has a built in AC automatic transfer. I suppose you can use 3 separate units, but my thought is that means a lot more external wiring complexity to fail as we joggle down the abandoned logging road. With a single unit that engineering is already handled. Also takes up less space than multiple devices.

The transfer switch (in my system) allows the AC outlets to be powered if you are running shore or inverter as the power source. So those outlets are really connected to the transfer switch.

My "misleading" comment is only because the only stuff on my batteries are the shunt, a breaker, and a catastrophe fuse. Current either flows in or out of the battery over the single attachments to the battery lugs. Everything else is tied together at buss bars. As an example, if my fridge is running: If my batteries are fully charged, and it's sunny, almost no current flows to or from the battery. The solar controller output is sufficient to run the fridge. The battery isn't actually powering the fridge (until a cloud comes by).
 
#25 ·
I have a Magnum Energy MMS1012. Does save space and I like the integration with the single remote. The automatic transfer switch allows one string of duplex plugs for either shore power or inverter power. Does simplify wiring by reducing the number of connections. When the BMK shunt is included I can just set the remote to read the state of charge. Could care less about any other information. If I know the SOC then I know what I can or can not do.
 
#29 ·
some magnum 2012s have No 120 volt output breakers for the inverter/shorepower, a magnum MS2012 in my case, so i had to add breakers to protect the output side of the inverter!
(keep your life simple when ordering magnum MS2012s, order a MS2012-15B or a MS2012-20B that already have the output breakers pre installed!)
 
#31 · (Edited)
I have an external breaker/fuse box for all my house load runs, AC and DC. Sits just below the CO/LPG alarm.

Stan
 
#35 ·
Someone on The Sprinter site who I respected suggested the two pole breaker. Since I did not know any better, I thought his logic made sense.

My system is 120 volts AC. Have two sources of shore power (real and from the vehicle powered inverter). I do not connect the house battery directly to the vehicle battery for charging. Primary method of charging is with a 300 watt solar panel with a MPPT 3 stage controller. The back up is 120 volt power from the vehicle powered inverter. Seldom need the back up. The back up can power the charger in the Magnum inverter/charger/transfer switch. Both methods of charging use a 3 stage charge with the correct charge profile.

Use the vehicle powered inverter for charging or heating shower water or for a 750 watt electric baseboard air heater in back of van. Can also heat the shower water with the house inverter and battery. Using the house battery for water heating depends on weather conditions.
 
#40 ·
TransitFool,

You may find it advantageous to break down your electrical into distinct sections. House, Van, Solar and Shore power are typically what your going to need to deal/decide upon so deal with them separately. Its a bit of a struggle to imagine how it all fits together as a whole and an even bigger struggle to put it all on one schematic.
 
#45 ·
Thanks for the suggestion.


I think my latest revision may work.

It seems like a maze. Just gotta find the right path and line it all up.

I think now I'm struggling to understand the "grounding" of the electrical system. Looking over the installation instructions for the BlueSea ML-ACR, and Go-Power GP-IC2000 and such. Last thing I want is to fry the vehicle's electrical system and/or myself, lol.

http://gpelectric.com/files/gpelectric/documents/PDF/Manual_GP-IC2000.pdf


According to their directions, they have the shore line feed into a "main panel" which then feels to the inverter/charger, which then feeds into a "sub panel". Do you guys use a separate "main panel"? Seems a bit redundant and more complicated than it should be. Not to mention, just to tie up spot for a 2nd panel.

I don't know how large these panels are. I do enjoy tinkering...
 
#42 ·
Hi,

Very nice electrical system.

Yes, it does get complicated. Wife and others may need some instructional labels to safely operate.

Sometimes, I print out summary sheets and tape them in a big zip lock bag right near the switches to remind myself of detailed functions.

Also, you should put Danger 120 volt stickers on the outside of panels to warn people not to poke around.''

For quick labels, I often use a black Sharpie and print info on blue painters tape and attach near electrical device.

TA
 
#43 ·
Oscarvan:

The vehicle powered inverter output can be sent to the house inverter/charger/transfer switch to power the charger and to power the duplex receptacles that are downstream of the house inverter/charger/transfer switch. The house inverter/charger/transfer switch will automatically transfer the power through the unit without the unit being turned on. While I drive with the vehicle powered inverter on, the 120 volt duplex plugs after the house inverter are powered without the inverter/charger/transfer switch being turned on.
 
#46 ·
The "main" panel can just be a double pole breaker on the top of your AC panel. The shore power comes into a double pole (hot and neutral) breaker. The output of that breaker feeds into the inverter/charger. The output of the inverter goes to a single pole main breaker (hot), which then feeds your sub breakers. Output of inverter neutral and all sub-circuit neutrals are tied together. The shore neutral is not connected to the inverter output neutral. All internal AC circuit neutrals are tied to the inverter output neutral. At least the first AC plug on each circuit/breaker should be GFCI.

Let me know if I've got this wrong and I'll edit...
 
#50 · (Edited)
You're saying that a double pole breaker, ie breaking the load AND the neutral will "protect yourself against the dreaded RV Park hot white wire syndrome."

I'm saying it won't.

Reversed polarity, ie the condition where the wrong side on the source (in this case the campground pedestal) is HOT is dangerous because it will bring the electricity into the RV on the neutral side of the panel and in the end neutral meets up with ground. This could potentially lead to things being hot that we touch, like the case of a toaster oven. Not good.

Running the shore power through a double pole breaker will NOT prevent this from happening. The electricity on the hot neutral WILL pass into the RV. ONLY if the current were to exceed the rated amperage of the breaker would it trip and shut off the supply. Yes, you can shut off the supply by tripping the breaker and yes if the neutral side was hot that would stop the electricity from entering the RV but while you're hooked up there is no protection.

As I said above, the only way to protect yourself against reverse polarity is to test the source with a multi meter, or automate that process with a power protector as offered in the link I gave. The latter do a lot more than protect against reverse polarity. They also protect against over/under voltage and spikes, all of which can damage the appliances in your RV. I NEVER hook up to an unknown source without my protector in place.
 
#52 ·
Oscarvan,

If you were to bring in 220 to your first panel then it would be considered a mains panel and the neutral and the ground would be tied together. You would not have a neutral coming in from the park, only a ground.

If you are bringing in 110v shore power then the hot, neutral and ground are supplied and all panels are wired as sub panels with the grounds and neutrals separated and simply being extensions of the parks wiring.

So what happens if the park accidently swaps the neutral and the hot at their outlet? In this case your intended neutral becomes the hot and your intended hot becomes the neutral, the ground remains the same. You're terminal equipment could care less about which is hot and neutral but if you're only putting a single breaker on the wire that you assumed would be hot and the park has reversed it then your van has no protection.

In our van's that are relatively small and have few A/C requirements, most of us only need a single 15 amp circuit consisting of a GFCI, and two additional convenience outlets plus one lighting fixture. In this case, a 2 circuit 2 space box (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...door-Main-Lug-Load-Center-QO2L30SCP/100157760) can be used with a 2 pole breaker to break both the hot and the neutral which will give you protection regardless of how the park wired their end. If you want more circuits in your van then you will need to add additional dual circuit boxes for each additional circuit or dual sub panels. The better alternative to that would be to purchase a RV mains panel that has been designed to deal with reversed wiring.
 
#51 ·
Question:

I seldom use shore power and when I do it is through a simple 15 amp 3 prong plug. I have no need for a traditional 30 amp shore connection.

I have looked for a protection device as shown here and have not found a variety for a 15 amp connection. Nothing smaller than 30 amp.

Suggestions?
 
#55 ·
This is true. My shore power input is a 20 amp Marinco and I made simple adapters for 15 amp and 30 amp connections. I had the stuff so I just made them myself and bought fishing tackle with the money I saved.;)
 
#54 · (Edited)
For those of you that are curious - http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...178-steve-s-2016-transit-redo.html#post490826

These pictures show the incoming shore power going through a 2 circuit 2 space Square D box then to a CO and then back out to my transfer switch. The output side of the Transfer switch also has the same box with the same configuration as the first because I want protection when power is transferred from shore to my inverter. I only have a need for a single 15 amp circuit in my van. My Converter/Charger is connected to the first CO and it is before the transfer switch. There is no on off switch on the unit and I don't want it running if I'm using the inverter which is what would happen if I had it on the output side of the transfer switch.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top