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Humble Request for Electrical Plan Review

28K views 89 replies 20 participants last post by  Tradewind500 
#1 ·
Hello. My name is Thomas; I'm a proud owner of a 2015 Ford Transit 250, High Roof, 148" WB, 3.7 engine cargo van since Feb of 2016. It's a blank slate. I've spent much of the past 3.5 months diligently studying this forum, as well as Sprinter Source, and any other camper-van forum I could locate. As most of you can probably appreciate, I have spent countless hours reading, rereading, and then rereading again the many threads on general builds, roof racks, electrical plans, layouts, bed frames, and on and on and on. This site has been a blessing, and it's all thanks to the many of you who have contributed tirelessly. I hope that after my build experience I can also contribute to future converters.

Some context:

The van is for my wife and myself, mid-30's, and two dogs. No kids in the plans. Live in Idaho. We kayak, raft, mountain bike, and hike almost every weekend. We plan to use it as an adventure-van and camper for our outdoor activities, with the longer occasional road-trips. Trips will primarily be 2-4 day weekends with the occasional week-long trip. Stealth is not a concern.

I've already put a Thule rack on the roof, with 2 Renogy 100w solar panels toward the front of the van; also installed the Maxxair fan (toward the rear), an OEM hitch, Proline ladder, and rear vertical kayak rack. We are getting ready to run the electrical wire and hang insulation (Thinsulate) now.

For interior layout, there will simply be a fixed-platform bed, about mid-height, for bicycle and misc. storage under the bed platform. There will be a small kitchen galley with gravity-fed water/plumbing, nothing elaborate needed here. We will use our Partner Steel propane stove to cook (outdoors). We also plan on building a few drop-down table/shelves, a passenger-seat / day bed, and some storage cubbies/anchor points. No need for heat/AC, plumbing, or toilet/shower at this time. We will use our Yeti cooler for a refrigerator for the time being (it will cool for almost 2 weeks).

Our biggest concerns are keeping the van relatively cool in the summer, and condensation.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
For the electrical system, I've purchased the following:
(2) 220ah Lifeline GPL-4CT AGM Batteries
Magnum MMS1012 Inverter
Magnum ME-RC 50 Remote
Magnum BMK Battery Monitor with Shunt
CTEK D250S + CTEK Smartpass (for alt. and solar charging)
(2) Renogy 100W Solar Panels

My plan for charging the system is to use only household 120Vac (20a circuit) from my garage to charge before and after use. While in use, the CTEK combination will charge from the Transit's 150a alternator and the 200w solar panels.

We will be very light on consumers. Our primary needs are light and air circulation. As such, I have planned for 3 LED house lights, and 2 LED bed-lights. We have a Maxxair 7000K fan, and a second low-draw road fan to help push air through. We will install 4 additional 12v plugs for various electronics charging needs, including two 12v heatpads/blankets for cooler weather camping (thanks for that great idea, Orton).

We will have a small AC circuit with 3 outlets - one at the rear of the van, and two in the galley for some kitchen appliances that we may need to use. I am strongly considering the 600w microwave suggested by Orton. We may later install a small TV.

So our energy demands are fairly light; it's been a little tough justifying the expense for such trivial energy demands, but I think what we've planned thus far will provide just enough comforts to be well worth it.

In the next post I will attach my electrical plans, and ask for any comments, criticisms, feedback, etc. I've been learning as I am going, and I've put a good 2 months into this plan before I wanted to submit it. I think I've saved just about every plan on this and the Sprinter forum.

Quick notes:

I decided to go with the CTEK combination after going back and forth and back again on whether to charge from the alternator. I decided with the amount we'd likely be driving, it was well worth it. After long study I really liked the purported advantages the CTEK system provides over the alternative I was considering - the Blue Sea ACR / Trimetric Controller combo. I really considered Orton's methodology, but I decided having a somewhat "automatic" charging system was worth the expense and risks. I think it will work well.

The biggest question I have, really, is how to "ground" the system. I'd ask anyone who is gracious enough to review my plans to pay particular attention to how I've planned for that. I decided to use a chassis ground stemming from a negative bus-bar that hubs the negative line from the solar, the CTEK, the MMS1012 Inverter, and the house battery (through the shunt), and then out to the DC consumers. I plan on using an "isolated" ground for the AC system (through the MMS1012 inverter) but need to continue studying this concept because, while it's been explained to me a number of times, it's just not quite clicking for me.
 
#6 ·
At first glance, your schematic looks very reasonable.
I do have one question and two comments:
Question: Your schematic notes say (#2) "Will not be wired for shore power; only household 120VAC"
I don't understand what this means.

Comment1: You might want to consider GFI protected outlets around the galley.
Comment2: You should plan on having the MS1012 chassis grounded to the vehicle chassis. You don't want to leave that floating. If the MS1012 is designed like the MS2012, the inverter should automatically handle AC common ground switching appropriately.
 
#7 ·
This means I'm not planning for any campground hookups... No 30a or 50a service. We don't ever use such facilities and while it may be an easy thing to design for, I'm only planning on 20a service from a standard household outlet. I realize this entails "shore power" but it's kinda different, no?

Comment no. 1: My AC outlets are all Gfci. It says so in really small print under each outlet.

Comment no. 2: you are correct. I forgot to include that in my last revision, as I'm still studying the manual. Would there be any issues created by having a chassis ground at the vehicle battery, the negative terminal bus in the house DC system, as well as the inverter as well?
 
#8 ·
This means I'm not planning for any campground hookups... No 30a or 50a service. We don't ever use such facilities and while it may be an easy thing to design for, I'm only planning on 20a service from a standard household outlet. I realize this entails "shore power" but it's kinda different, no?
Well, it's still 120VAC. About the only difference is the plug that you would use at a campground. I carry a regular extension cord and an adapter that I would use with it at a campground. But we get your point.

Your design looks good.
 
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#14 · (Edited)
Anchorless, I had a concern about the CTEK, because buried somewhere in their documentation it indicates if you have a smart alternator you're supposed to connect it via the solar connector, not the "normal" starter-battery/alternator connector. Their support people "weakly" advised to adhere to that rule. I'm not trying to flame their support but they sounded a bit tentative about their advice.

http://www.ctek.com/sradmin/ARCHIVE/Support/dcdc_support/D250S_Dual_with_Smart_altenator.pdf

1) I don't know that we have smart alternators , but it has been suggested by Orton.
2) I think other people have hooked up the way you have, and I haven't heard anybody catching their van on fire.
3) my approach was going to be much more minimal and not include the Smartpass but don't know that that changes the smart alternator concern. If you hook it up via the solar connector, and through an either-or relay, it seems to me it loses some of its allure.

Personally I'm in analysis paralysis mode on this

http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...2-electrical-questions-simple-conversion.html
 
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#17 ·
Looking back through this, I wonder if the "problem," if there is one, wouldn't be alleviated with the Smartpass? Consider the manual:

http://smartercharger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/D250S-DUAL_EN.pdf

LARGE SERVICE BATTERY
INSTALLATION SHEET 5
D250S DUAL
12V SMARTPASS

SITUATION
One alternator feeding a Starter battery
and a large Service battery.

PROBLEM
The Service battery will take a very long
time to recharge due to low alternator
voltage and restrictions in how the alternator current is used. The Solar panel is difficult to synchronize with the alternator. Due to these issues, the battery will underperform and die prematurely.

SOLUTION
The SMARTPASS separates the two battery
banks when the engine is off. With
the engine on, the alternator charges
the service battery with its maximum
current until it has tapered off to the
D250S Dual max level.
Then the D250S
DUAL charger finalizes the charge. The
recharge time is minimized. Solar panels
are easily integrated and synchronized if
a D250S Dual is used together with the
SMARTPASS
 
#15 ·
Well this is why Orton designed his system as he did - to take advantage of alternator charging when he needs it but through another inverter rather than direct connection to the alternator. I strongly considered it.

It seems to me that you can just add the $4 relay and rewire per the CTEK pdf you linked, and that would sort of take care of the issue, no?

Anyway, I'll look into it. Seems like it would be an issue for anyone charging a smart system from their Transit alternator, regardless of whether they use a Smartpass, ACR, Sterling charger, etc. I wonder how the dual battery Transits compensate for a smart alternator. Would they have a different PCM/ECM?
 
#16 ·
The second inverter design powered by the vehicle 12 volt system as a method of charging was due to my fear of the Sprinter electrical system. Did not want to overload the alternator or interact with the Sprinter electrical. The inverter would limit the draw from the alternator. The second reason was to always charge the house battery with the proper 3 stage charge profile. The third reason was reading that two different batteries should not be charged together. Size, type, age, manufacturer should be matched.

What has evolved is interesting. Now the primary reason for the second inverter is the flexibility it offers. The need for charging from the vehicle has been eliminated by the large single 300 watt solar panel. Learned that my initial Sprinter 135 watt panel just about matched my refrigerator power requirements. Changed to a 205 watt panel which gave me excess capacity. Now with a same physical size 300 watt Transit panel my need to regularly charge from the vehicle electrical system was eliminated. The ability to charge is now simply a backup in case weather conditions force its use.

The vehicle powered inverter is now primarily used to provide power to electrically heat air and shower water. Using 120 volt Ac to heat the shower water in a simple open container eliminates the normal plumbing for a hot/cold water shower. No plumbing required for the shower. Bought a 750 watt electric baseboard heater to heat the back of the van while driving.

Another choice that would work is to have one inverter and a selector switch to select 12 volt power from either the vehicle or the house battery. 120 volt AC available while driving from the vehicle or when not driving from the house battery. A separate 3 stage house battery charger could be powered by the inverter while driving or from shore power. A second selector switch could select which 120 volt power source is used.
 
#19 ·
Knowing just enough about electronics to be dangerous... :D

I don't see how there could be any danger to the vehicle (or its "smart alternator") by connecting to the CTek's vehicle input. It's just going to look like any other varying load.

I also don't see a way for the alternator to cause a major issue for the CTek - the only issue I can come up with is that the CTek decides the engine is off (and shuts itself down) solely based on input voltage. A "dumb" alternator of old used to keep the voltage fairly high at all times but the "smart" ones (actually the PCM) can reduce the voltage quite low if it sees there's no real demand for power.

So I expect that's the only actual issue, the CTek may just stop charging because the vehicle system voltage dropped below its threshold. The solar input wouldn't have that limitation, if it has any voltage/power present at all it'll get used.

On a related note, browsing around about the CTek it seems the solar voltage clamps to the vehicle input voltage when the unit decides the engine is on. I have a feeling all they're doing is feeding both power sources to a single buck converter to charge the house battery. If the vehicle input voltage is too low, it gets disconnected and the MPPT algorithm is able to adjust higher to find the panels' MPP. If the vehicle voltage rises (engine on) it gets connected in parallel (probably using a couple of diodes to isolate the inputs) and the much "stiffer" vehicle voltage keeps the MPPT algorithm from varying from that voltage.

The tinkerer within is dying to crack open that CTek and see what makes it tick... ;) Think I'll forego that guilty pleasure, though, and just wire it in. Got all my electrical goodies so time to start figuring out how I want to install them!
 
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#22 ·
If you're using the Smartpass you'd need to use two of the CCPs (60A each) to cover the 80A max. Can then use two runs of smaller wire, one to each of the CCPs.

Alternately, if you already have the 1AWG to run a long distance, add a busbar near the CCPs. Connect short jumpers of wire from the CCPs to the busbar, then connect the 1AWG to it.

Not sure if this is kosher, but seems okay to me: Use 6AWG jumpers from the CCPs - maybe a foot long, just enough to get to a safe / out-of-the-way location - then put ring terminals on each jumper that is the same (or nearly) size as the ring terminal on the 1AWG. Bolt them together, then tape heavily with electrical tape, maybe protect inside an enclosure of some sort.


Possible problem with connecting directly to the battery post is the current drawn by the CTek won't be measured by the vehicle's current sensor. (Hall effect sensor located on the positive lead.) What effect that would have depends on what the computer does with that information. Could end up over/under-charging the battery as it doesn't have an accurate number for total amps in/out of the battery.
 
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#23 ·
With your first scenario, do you run both wires directly from the Smartpass "Service Battery" post?

With the D250s and Smartpass combo, typically config:




On the D250s, the solar comes into top left post. Negative in/out top right post. Connecting plates to Smartpass both bottom posts.

On the Smartpass, vehicle battery / alternator to top left post. House battery top right, consumers bottom left.

So, again, would you just run two wires from two CCPs, and connect both to the same post on the Smartpass?

I have about a 2 ft one-way run from battery to CTEK. If the recommended wire gauge is 4AWG at 12v, 80a, 4 feet total; would I just halve the amperage to 40a? The calculator then suggests 8AWG.

(Incidentally, I might be off on my estimated wire gauge previously... I'll look into this)
 
#24 ·
Incidentally...

If the Transit alternator is rated at 150 amps, and the CTEK Smartpass charges at 80 amps, which would I base the wire size between the vehicle battery / alternator and the CTEK Smartpass? The manual advises 6 AWG at up to 6 ft, with 150A fuse., suggesting the CTEK would limit the draw from the alternator at 80a.
 
#25 ·
You'd use two CCPs each with an 8 or 6AWG and both would connect to the alternator / starter battery (not service) connection. You want to make sure your connections (crimp rings, whatever) and the wire lengths are as much identical as you can manage so the current will share as equally as possible.

You base wire sizes on the current they need to carry, and then size the fuse to protect the wire. Of course what wire size you need can vary wildly depending on the chart you use! The Blue Sea chart I have says 80A needs at least 4AWG. The most generous table I have (from Powerstream) shows 6AWG's "chassis wiring" current (very short runs) is only 101A so a 150A fuse on 6AWG seems too large. Shouldn't need more than 90-100A anyway, just want to be a little higher (15% or so?) than the max load to account for fuse derating when hot.
 
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#27 ·
I will have a 1000 watt pure sine inverter connected to the 3 CCP's. I mounted a Blue Sea 4 # 2303 4 stud bus bar with a 2715 cover about 8" from the three CCP's. Will run three # 6 AWG wires between the CCP and the bus. From the fourth terminal a #2 wire goes about 8" to the 150 amp fuse. Then #2 about 18" to the Blue Sea #6006 disconnect switch. Then #2 from the disconnect switch about 8" to the inverter. The negative from the inverter will be #2 about 47" long from the inverter negative post to the bottom back parking brake mounting stud.

All parts mounted but not wired.
 
#28 ·
Their online manual suggests 4awg with 150 amp fuse is ok up to 30 ft. With Smartpass. "Ok" may be different from "optimal" though
 
#29 ·
#30 ·
Gah, this whole CCP thing is turning out to be a major PITA. Of course I only have one 60a connection point. So it looks as though I'll have to order the 3-lug CCP with fuses (see this thread: http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/...25-customer-connection-point-driver-seat.html)

I think I will also order the fused distribution block seen here: http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/339730-post29.html

What a pain.
Yes, you will want a fuse block. A lot of us used Blue Sea blocks. I used this 12 circuit block with negative bus (since I ran neg wire to all circuits): [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Blade-Block/dp/B001P6FTHC?ie=UTF8&keywords=blue%20sea%20fuse%20block%2012&qid=1463500638&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1[/ame]


They make 'em with 6 or 8 circuits, too, but, might as well get more than you think you'd need.
 
#38 ·
I am not sure if this would complicate your wiring diagram, but might be important. I just received this diagram from Ctek when I mention our vehicle has smart alternator.
 

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#34 ·
I updated the wire sizing properly, and decided that I would hook up directly to vehicle battery (+) terminal, rather than the CCP (which I only have one point currently). I will see how this works, but it seems to work for @Airedrifter.

I'm still a little confused as to the "ground" situation for the MMS1012.

The negative bus-bar that acts as a hub for the negative line from the solar, the CTEK devices, the MMS1012 Inverter, and the house battery (through the shunt), and then out to the DC consumers. This bus bar is grounded to chassis. So, the “grounding” aspect of this system is satisfied, though it seems unnecessary in the sense of using chassis to complete the circuit. Is this properly understood?

The MMS1012 manual is somewhat confusing in its terminology. First, it says:

“Do not attempt to use a vehicle metal frame in place of the negative connection or DC ground. The inverter requires a reliable negative and ground return path directly to the battery.” Okay, I think I satisfied that.

But then it says:

“The inverter/charger should always be connected to a permanent, grounded wiring system. The idea is to connect the metallic chassis of the various enclosures together to have them at the same voltage potential, which reduces the possibility for electric shock. For the majority of installations, the inverter chassis and the negative battery conductor are connected to the system’s ground bond via a safety grounding conductor (bare wire or green insulated wire) at only one point in the system…. If the inverter is in a vehicle, DO NOT connect the battery negative (-) cable to the vehicle’s safety ground. Only connect to the inverter’s negative battery terminal. If there are any non-factory installed appliances onboard the vehicle, DO NOT ground them at safety ground. Only ground them at the negative bus of the DC load center (as applicable).”

I’m a bit confused by their terminology, in using the terms “DC Grounding System,” “chassis ground,” “safety ground,” and “ground bond.”

Reading this I’m not sure my plan comports with their instructions, insofar as I do not directly connect the battery (-) negative cable to the Inverter’s negative battery terminal, but rather, go through the shunt and negative bus bar (which is grounded to chassis).

A bigger problem is within the 120Vac system. Obviously, this is ground to earth at the service (which will strictly be from my garage 20a branch circuit). I plan on using an "isolated" ground for the 120Vac system (through the MMS1012 inverter), but need to continue studying this concept because, while it's been explained to me a number of times, it's just not quite clicking for me.

Thoughts?
 
#36 ·
I haven't looked at the manual for the inverter mentioned, so I'll take a SWAG... :)

I'm going to guess by "vehicle safety ground" they mean the AC side ground. It is common for the 120V neutral to be bonded to ground (whether at the inverter or in a breaker panel or - at a campground - I imagine at the distribution panel for the campground pedestals).

This means if you connect the DC negative to the safety ground you're effectively connecting the inverter's neutral output to the battery negative. If you have a fully isolated inverter that's not a problem, but many inverters - especially mod-sine inverters - are not isolated and this can immediately let the smoke out of the H-bridge in the inverter!


Now that I said that... On rereading, I think the above is actually referring to *DC* powered devices with safety grounds. In that case they're saying to do it just like you would an AC load distribution center. There needs to be ONE connection between the negative bus (neutral in an AC panel) and the vehicle frame (safety ground). They suggest at the negative bus bar.

The reason for this is to prevent ground loops. If every device and the battery were individually connected to the chassis as well as the bus bar, some current would flow through the chassis connections as well as the bus bar. Worst-case, if your battery negative cable came loose / opened up ALL current would flow through the chassis, possibly exceeding the limits of the grounding lugs / wires.


Grounding is a fascinating black art at times... :p
 
#37 ·
I think I understand all of that and agree...

Two things that create problems, though (potentially): the vehicle battery being grounded to vehicle chassis (at location between driver/passenger seats); and the chassis of the inverter itself being grounded to vehicle chassis separately, per the manual?

Let's keep up this discussion! It's enlightening.
 
#40 ·
Take a look at your fuse sizes. Google "ampacity table" for info on what they should be. For instance, the 200 A fuse on the start battery is too large for 2 gauge wire.

Also, you could use a 30 A breaker on your 10 gauge solar lead which might slightly decrease the voltage drop in that circuit. Rather than a combiner box, you might look at parallel MC4 connectors.

I'm no expert. I'm working on my own plan and gaining a bit of knowledge as I dig into it. We can all help each other.
 
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